Yep, I in need of help....again

I didn't have a lot of time yesterday, to work on the bike.  I did take the plugs out to look at all of them.  Plugs on #1 and #2 look normal, #3 and #4 are black as can be.  I'm wondering if it's a plug wire issue.  I will see if 3 and 4 have spark later today. 

All four cylinders have spark. I have given up and will be taking the carbs to a local guy to see if he can get them adjusted properly.

Back again, .  I have no idea what's going on with my carbs.  I got them back from the guy and they don't seem to be working any better.  They cleaned and put back together.

I just put them back on the bike and was going to give it a go at balancing them.  I started the bike,  using the choke, and it shot up to 4k rpms.   Shut it off, pulled the choke out just a tad and it was running, ok.

I let it just sit and idle.  It wouldn't idle well.  I kept having to adjust the idle screw.  If I'd blip the throttle,  it would go to 3k or 4k, stay there for a few seconds then slowly go back down.  Even without any throttle movement,  the idle would go from 1100 to 3k the  back down.

I also had the Morgan Carbtune hooked up.  I got no vacuum reading at all, at idle.  I have no idea how that could be.  I have replaced the rubber carb holders and have new clamps as well.

Im pretty much at my wits end.  I have no one that I can call for help.  So, that being said ,  anyone have any suggestions ?

Oh, one last thing.  When I turned the bike off, I got a pop through the exhaust.  I did check all the header bolts and the bolts on the crossover pipe under the bike.  All tight.

Those are classic symptoms of some serious air leaks or clogged idle circuits, or a combo of both.
Are you certain that the cabs are fully seated in the holders?
Do the throttle shafts fit pretty smoothly where they enter and exit each carburetor body? Badly worn ones can leak.
Are all four vacuum ports tightly capped or connected to something that does not leak?

The first post mentions that the idle mixture screws had no effect on idle speed. Is that still true? This can be from a wildly lean or a wildly rich mixture.
If it is lean, the engine will idle better with the enricheners (called starter plungers by Kawasaki) open. if too rich, opening the enrichenrs will likely cause the engine to die. 
In either case, opening the throttle will likely clear this up quite a bit as the engine can feed off the needle, which will provide a more balanced mixture.

Are you absolutely certain that all four starter plungers are seating and that they are sealing?

Are you sure that the spark plug wires are connected to the proper cylinders? One coil should be connected to cylinders 1 & 4, the other coil to cylinders 2 & 3.

As Texas touched on, double verify "spark". Considering it's isolated to rich #2 and 3 still could be that circuit. You could still have a hint of "testing" spark but non-functional when running. Spark plug caps have a resistor built into them. If one fails it also affects, shuts off spark, to the other one. Each coil secondary winding has to find ground which the caps play a part in. And of course double check all electrical connectors. One side of the Igniter circuitry can get weak/fail too. Have You verified the efficacy of mechanicals, (read) leak-down test per cylinder? When you/buddy did the carbs did you verify the slide rubbers were intact? Can't be full of holes or the slide won't lift creating a "choke" scenario because slide is blocking venturi. Things to think about.    

TexasKZ wrote:

Those are classic symptoms of some serious air leaks or clogged idle circuits, or a combo of both.
Are you certain that the cabs are fully seated in the holders?

I had the carbs off and used an ultrasonic cleaner on them.  I also replaced all the jets.  I'm positive the carbs are fully seated.  I made sure of that.

Do the throttle shafts fit pretty smoothly where they enter and exit each carburetor body? Badly worn ones can leak.
Are all four vacuum ports tightly capped or connected to something that does not leak?

They seem to be smooth, how can I can otherwise?  The vacuum ports on the tops of the carbs were and are connected to  my Morgan Carbtune

The first post mentions that the idle mixture screws had no effect on idle speed. Is that still true?

I cannot answer this one, as I did not mess with them.  I turned them out to 1.5 turns from the seated position.

This can be from a wildly lean or a wildly rich mixture.
If it is lean, the engine will idle better with the enricheners (called starter plungers by Kawasaki) open. if too rich, opening the enrichenrs will likely cause the engine to die. 
In either case, opening the throttle will likely clear this up quite a bit as the engine can feed off the needle, which will provide a more balanced mixture.

Are you absolutely certain that all four starter plungers are seating and that they are sealing?

No, am not.  How can I check this?   Are these parts the same as the "choke plungers?"

Are you sure that the spark plug wires are connected to the proper cylinders? One coil should be connected to cylinders 1 & 4, the other coil to cylinders 2 & 3.

Almost positive, but will double check them.  Thank you for all this!

asphalt900 wrote:

As Texas touched on, double verify "spark". Considering it's isolated to rich #2 and 3 still could be that circuit. You could still have a hint of "testing" spark but non-functional when running. Spark plug caps have a resistor built into them. If one fails it also affects, shuts off spark, to the other one. Each coil secondary winding has to find ground which the caps play a part in. And of course double check all electrical connectors.

The first time around, I did pull off  each of the spark plugs and saw they were getting spark.  I think I am good there.  However, I have a Power Probe and can check to see that the coils are making the proper amount of energy. Is there a way to do that with this tool?

One side of the Igniter circuitry can get weak/fail too. Have You verified the efficacy of mechanicals, (read) leak-down test per cylinder?

I have not done this.  I will though.

When you/buddy did the carbs did you verify the slide rubbers were intact? Can't be full of holes or the slide won't lift creating a "choke" scenario because slide is blocking venturi. Things to think about.    

I don't know if he did or did not.  If I understand this, those are the little rubber parts on the choke plungers, correct?

rickysnicker wrote:

asphalt900 wrote:

As Texas touched on, double verify "spark". Considering it's isolated to rich #2 and 3 still could be that circuit. You could still have a hint of "testing" spark but non-functional when running. Spark plug caps have a resistor built into them. If one fails it also affects, shuts off spark, to the other one. Each coil secondary winding has to find ground which the caps play a part in. And of course double check all electrical connectors.

The first time around, I did pull off  each of the spark plugs and saw they were getting spark.  I think I am good there.  However, I have a Power Probe and can check to see that the coils are making the proper amount of energy. Is there a way to do that with this tool?  No - you would need a voltmeter (just a note, if you are using a power probe ensure you are totally confident of where you are using it !!) To be honest I don't think it's ignition related. As I understand it #3 & #4 are sooted, that is one from each coil and opposite sides of the ignition system

One side of the Igniter circuitry can get weak/fail too. Have You verified the efficacy of mechanicals, (read) leak-down test per cylinder?

I have not done this.  I will though.

When you/buddy did the carbs did you verify the slide rubbers were intact? Can't be full of holes or the slide won't lift creating a "choke" scenario because slide is blocking venturi. Things to think about.    

I don't know if he did or did not.  If I understand this, those are the little rubber parts on the choke plungers, correct?

Yes, choke plunger and starter plunger are two terms for the same part. Starter plunger is the more accurate term since these carburetors have an enrichener system rather than a choke.

The slide and diaphragm are number 16126 in this diagram.  www.partzilla.com/catalog/kawasaki/motor...p19/carburetor-parts

The slide is a hard plastic tube with a closed end that holds the the needle. The diaphragm is a thin rubber bit connected to the top of the cylinder. This is accessed by taking the chrome top off the carburetor. The diaphragm is thin and fragile, and subject to small cracks and tears when they get old. Also, some less than careful owners can inadvertently tear them. They need to be soft, pliable and completely free of rips, tears and holes.

Did you verify that each of the tiny passageways in each pilot circuit are clear? Carbs can sit in an ultrasonic bath until the bodies begin to dissolve and still have clogged pilot circuits. If you look into each carb, you will see some very tiny holes in the bottom of the bore, (I suppose they could be in the top of the bore, right below the mixture screw) right where the throttle butterfly rests when in the closed position. I think four is the usual number. They are tiny and easily clogged.

This is my method for checking. Before reassembling the carbs, I get a spray can of carb cleaner with its little straw installed. Stick the straw all the way down into the mixture screw hole. (Yes, the screw must be removed first.) While holding the throttle wide open, I give it a spray, insuring that each little hole is making a clear, strong, fine spray and that the spray pattern and volume look the same from each. Please wear eye protection, as the chemicals can do damage to unprotected eyes.

TexasKZ, it was a while back now and to be honest, I don't remember if I squirted all those holes.  I did have some carb cleaner and did use it after they soaked in the ultrasonic.  I guess I'll be pulling them off.....again....and doing that.

Wookie, you are correct, it was #3 and #4 that were all sooty from running rich.

I went out and was messing around the bike.  It got it run properly, with the starter rod pulled out to the half way mark.  It even registered vacuum on the Carbtune.  It still wouldn't run well with the choke rod pushed all the way in.  I took the carbs off the bike.  I checked the diaphragms and one has a small hole in it.  So, now I'll be replacing all of them.  I tried to pull the choke plungers out of each of the carbs.  How the heck do you get them out and get the choke rod off?  

I officially hate carbs!!  At this point, I'm almost sorry I bought this damn thing.....

rickysnicker wrote:

I went out and was messing around the bike.  It got it run properly, with the starter rod pulled out to the half way mark.  It even registered vacuum on the Carbtune.  It still wouldn't run well with the choke rod pushed all the way in.  I took the carbs off the bike.  I checked the diaphragms and one has a small hole in it.  So, now I'll be replacing all of them.  I tried to pull the choke plungers out of each of the carbs.  How the heck do you get them out and get the choke rod off?  

I officially hate carbs!!  At this point, I'm almost sorry I bought this damn thing.....

there are circlips at each plunger on the choke rod "WARNING" the centre two carbs have a spring and ball bearing in the carb housing that provides the detent for the choke