TOPIC:

Nessism wrote:

There are lots of different, successful, ways to derust a gas tank, but if water rinsing is involved, it's absolutely critical to remove the water in the tank before applying a protectant.  Oil and water don't mix, so applying oil on top of water, is a really bad idea.
 

Blow drying the tank first. Will be bone dry.  Whats a non water way to rinse then? Or better said, what is an approach that does not involve water at all. And Im not using POR 15. Ive heard bad stories.

DanMadBoy wrote:

 

I am an old timer, there's no way I'm putting water into a freshly derusted tank. Marvel Mystery Oil isn't needed because the diesel does the job. Besides MMV is too expensive for this application.
 

Ive actually seen cars/motorcycles destroyed because of diesel fuel. No way Im putting that in my tank, even for a rinse. NEVER!

You're right that cars/motorcycles have lost engines when the wrong fuel is inadvertently used, but Kelly E wasn't suggesting that you use diesel in a running engine.  He is correct that the resiidual diesel left after washing the tank interior won't harm an engine.  Your reply was not necessary and was in my opinion immature.

You're free to accept or reject advice from anyone who tries to help you.  But you need to develop a little maturity when you reply.  You could have and should have either said nothing or a simple thank you.  Now you've lost him forever, one of the most experienced guys on this site.  You've also probably lost the people who have worked with him in the past.  A couple of more immature replies and you won't have anyone responding to your requests.  

Kelly E wrote:

We use EvapoRust to clean the tanks. When it is done we skip the water rinse and go straight to rinsing with diesel. The diesel will pick up the water and sludge. Shake the crap out of it. Dump the diesel out into a clear jug. In a couple of minutes the sludge and water will settle to the bottom. Carefully dump the diesel back in for another round and dump the sludge. Several rounds and the tank will be clean and it is good to use or store because of the diesel coating the inside. Any residual diesel will have no effect when you fill up the tank with gas and run the bike.
We've done over dozen bikes with this method and have not had any issues.
 

Apologies to you. You were only trying to help. I will think about it.

hardrockminer wrote:

You're right that cars/motorcycles have lost engines when the wrong fuel is inadvertently used, but Kelly E wasn't suggesting that you use diesel in a running engine.  He is correct that the resiidual diesel left after washing the tank interior won't harm an engine.  Your reply was not necessary and was in my opinion immature.

You're free to accept or reject advice from anyone who tries to help you.  But you need to develop a little maturity when you reply.  You could have and should have either said nothing or a simple thank you.  Now you've lost him forever, one of the most experienced guys on this site.  You've also probably lost the people who have worked with him in the past.  A couple of more immature replies and you won't have anyone responding to your requests.  

 

I wouldnt say my responses are immature but rather matter-of-fact:  at worst, I would say some of my replies are a bit testy.

However, youre right. I could calm down a bit and engage better.

That in mind, I offered him an apology and say thanks to you for making valid points. I am happy to take on board legitimate criticisms.

Thanks.

DanMadBoy wrote:

 

Ive actually seen cars/motorcycles destroyed because of diesel fuel. No way Im putting that in my tank, even for a rinse. NEVER!

This is an interesting statement, (I am not suggesting you do anything you don't want to do) I would appreciate if you could expand on this as to what actually occurred to "destroy" these cars/motorcycles. I am simply asking out of interest to expand my knowledge. I have worked in the automotive industry for over 40 years and below is my understanding of the effect of "wrong fuelling" I am happy to be corrected on this if I'm wrong (with an explanation of why)
diesel in a gasoline engine
Will cause the vehicle to either not start or barely run and smoke excessively (if there is still some gasoline in the system) and if run like this for a prolonged period would block the catalyst although it is unlikely it would run long enough for this to happen.
The "fix" would be to drain the fuel system, clean spark plugs and fill with fresh fuel. There would be excessive smoke from the exhaust and possibly a slight mis-fire until the remains of the diesel had worked through (usually a few miles) but no lasting mechanical damage.
Gasoline in a diesel engine
Would cause excessive "knock" due to the combustion of gasoline/air being much more violent and that by igniting with compression there would be no control of the "burn" so the intake charge would "explode" rather than "burn". This will cause significant mechanical damage. Also diesel engines rely on the "lubricating" properties of the fuel for pistons etc. In modern "high pressure" diesel systems the fuel pump also relies on lubrication from the fuel. If filled with gasoline the pump will eat itself filling the fuel system with metal fragments and often the pump will seize which will then break the timing chain/belt (this is similar to the way that a 2 stroke relies on the fuel/oil mix for lubrication of pistons, crank bearings etc. This is why it is common for race 2 strokes to seize at the end of a long straight when the engine is still turning at high speed but the throttle is closed. This is normally compensated for by "blipping the throttle to allow fuel to enter)

I once owned a 1980 diesel Chevy half ton that I sold to a guy when I upgraded to a new vehicle.  One day he went to a gas station and told the attendant to fill er up.  He went into the convenience store and came back out after paying the bill.  The attendant had filled the truck with gas and the truck didn't go more than about a 100 ft before the engine locked up.

hardrockminer wrote:

I once owned a 1980 diesel Chevy half ton that I sold to a guy when I upgraded to a new vehicle.  One day he went to a gas station and told the attendant to fill er up.  He went into the convenience store and came back out after paying the bill.  The attendant had filled the truck with gas and the truck didn't go more than about a 100 ft before the engine locked up.

As I said, gas in a diesel = very bad whereas diesel in a gas motor = not so bad   

Wookie58 wrote:

DanMadBoy wrote:

 

Ive actually seen cars/motorcycles destroyed because of diesel fuel. No way Im putting that in my tank, even for a rinse. NEVER!

This is an interesting statement, (I am not suggesting you do anything you don't want to do) I would appreciate if you could expand on this as to what actually occurred to "destroy" these cars/motorcycles. I am simply asking out of interest to expand my knowledge. I have worked in the automotive industry for over 40 years and below is my understanding of the effect of "wrong fuelling" I am happy to be corrected on this if I'm wrong (with an explanation of why)
diesel in a gasoline engine
Will cause the vehicle to either not start or barely run and smoke excessively (if there is still some gasoline in the system) and if run like this for a prolonged period would block the catalyst although it is unlikely it would run long enough for this to happen.
The "fix" would be to drain the fuel system, clean spark plugs and fill with fresh fuel. There would be excessive smoke from the exhaust and possibly a slight mis-fire until the remains of the diesel had worked through (usually a few miles) but no lasting mechanical damage.
Gasoline in a diesel engine
Would cause excessive "knock" due to the combustion of gasoline/air being much more violent and that by igniting with compression there would be no control of the "burn" so the intake charge would "explode" rather than "burn". This will cause significant mechanical damage. Also diesel engines rely on the "lubricating" properties of the fuel for pistons etc. In modern "high pressure" diesel systems the fuel pump also relies on lubrication from the fuel. If filled with gasoline the pump will eat itself filling the fuel system with metal fragments and often the pump will seize which will then break the timing chain/belt (this is similar to the way that a 2 stroke relies on the fuel/oil mix for lubrication of pistons, crank bearings etc. This is why it is common for race 2 strokes to seize at the end of a long straight when the engine is still turning at high speed but the throttle is closed. This is normally compensated for by "blipping the throttle to allow fuel to enter)

 

My sister, only a year ago (shes very spoiled, very privileged and has a rich husband - and doesnt really think, just does) put diesel fuel in her Maybach 550 and RUINED the engine. Ive know a few ppl who used diesel fuel and destroyed their engines.

hardrockminer wrote:

I once owned a 1980 diesel Chevy half ton that I sold to a guy when I upgraded to a new vehicle.  One day he went to a gas station and told the attendant to fill er up.  He went into the convenience store and came back out after paying the bill.  The attendant had filled the truck with gas and the truck didn't go more than about a 100 ft before the engine locked up.
 

This is my point. Happened to my sister last year when she filled up her maybach 550 with diesel fuel.

DanMadBoy wrote:

Wookie58 wrote:

DanMadBoy wrote:

 

Ive actually seen cars/motorcycles destroyed because of diesel fuel. No way Im putting that in my tank, even for a rinse. NEVER!

This is an interesting statement, (I am not suggesting you do anything you don't want to do) I would appreciate if you could expand on this as to what actually occurred to "destroy" these cars/motorcycles. I am simply asking out of interest to expand my knowledge. I have worked in the automotive industry for over 40 years and below is my understanding of the effect of "wrong fuelling" I am happy to be corrected on this if I'm wrong (with an explanation of why)
diesel in a gasoline engine
Will cause the vehicle to either not start or barely run and smoke excessively (if there is still some gasoline in the system) and if run like this for a prolonged period would block the catalyst although it is unlikely it would run long enough for this to happen.
The "fix" would be to drain the fuel system, clean spark plugs and fill with fresh fuel. There would be excessive smoke from the exhaust and possibly a slight mis-fire until the remains of the diesel had worked through (usually a few miles) but no lasting mechanical damage.
Gasoline in a diesel engine
Would cause excessive "knock" due to the combustion of gasoline/air being much more violent and that by igniting with compression there would be no control of the "burn" so the intake charge would "explode" rather than "burn". This will cause significant mechanical damage. Also diesel engines rely on the "lubricating" properties of the fuel for pistons etc. In modern "high pressure" diesel systems the fuel pump also relies on lubrication from the fuel. If filled with gasoline the pump will eat itself filling the fuel system with metal fragments and often the pump will seize which will then break the timing chain/belt (this is similar to the way that a 2 stroke relies on the fuel/oil mix for lubrication of pistons, crank bearings etc. This is why it is common for race 2 strokes to seize at the end of a long straight when the engine is still turning at high speed but the throttle is closed. This is normally compensated for by "blipping the throttle to allow fuel to enter)


 

My sister, only a year ago (shes very spoiled, very privileged and has a rich husband - and doesnt really think, just does) put diesel fuel in her Maybach 550 and RUINED the engine. Ive know a few ppl who used diesel fuel and destroyed their engines.

As I said in my post "looking to learn" define "ruined" what was the actual damage ???

DanMadBoy wrote:

hardrockminer wrote:

I once owned a 1980 diesel Chevy half ton that I sold to a guy when I upgraded to a new vehicle.  One day he went to a gas station and told the attendant to fill er up.  He went into the convenience store and came back out after paying the bill.  The attendant had filled the truck with gas and the truck didn't go more than about a 100 ft before the engine locked up.

 

This is my point. Happened to my sister last year when she filled up her maybach 550 with diesel fuel.

This post relates to gas in a diesel motor which is never good (I have already explained why)

Right, and the topic has now become tangential.

I have only ever talked about what are the implications of diesel fuel and vestiges of diesel fuel left over when rinsing the tank and the harm it can do to my bike as it goes through the system.