old man rock

these are a/c gauges ,same basic principle as what youre trying to figure out.the red numbers on the left gauge are inches of vacuam.

Hey Plum,

Ok here we go.....

NOTE: Carbs aren't my gig in experience, so I'm new to this at this level where wanting to learn just the same.....

In the attached image, the excerpt is from the Kawi shop manual; and on the right is the vacuum gauges I obtained from Z1 Ent....

The RED line on the left of the gauge image is where all 4 carb's are fluctuating at (+/- 3) of each other. In reviewing Kawi, I should be reading somewhere bwn 8-9 on this scale.... Or do I have this all jacked up?

Or am I reading this correctly where I need to get each carb up to the green line value of 8-9inches?

I'm 100% positive is the problem lies in my setup and lack of knowledge in carbs so learning as I go....

Thanks in advance all,

OMR

you need em down there in the green area where it says normal,oh wait this is you we're talking about!:S :woohoo: adjust the screws to 1 1/4- 1 1/2 turns to get youre fuel/air mixture in the ballpark first then try synching the carbs and playing with your idle.if theyre set at one turn out i think thats a lot of your problem,but then again im not a professional carbonater dood !B)LEGAL DISCLAIMER(Our client mr Plummen aka wiremandood is not a professional carbonater dood so if youre dumb enough to listen to anything he says youre basically on your own!sincerely WEE.CHEATEM and HOWE Attorneys at law )maybe youre right,im stuck on inches of vacuam since thats what i work with !

What a freaking PITA! :S

OK, in studying the Keihin literature, deciphering there mixed identifiers and in speaking with Mr. Sunshine (Plummen), I think I'm at least getting somewhere...

As depicted in the image, I have crossed off or boxed the pertinent data that reflects my carb identifiers and setup... I also included the rest of the Keihin tuning but not there yet, still working on the basic idle and sync matching on the vacuum gauges...

Whew.... Ok, I have it now where at least I have the idle at 1500rpm. The fluctuations on the carbs match but are only at ~ 2" (RED line in previous image).... I believe the green line is the goal but for now, at least idling....

I followed Plummens advice, turned the pilot screws all the way in then backed out 1.5 turns. Then with the vacuum gauges, re-adjusted the individual throttle stop screws in the throttle valve bodies (remove the carb top caps) so at least they match now....

I still believe these to be extremely low in measurement so will see if I can get these to raise optimally to the green line....

As can be also reviewed, I was running RICH so backing these out an additional .5 turns will lean the mixture....

Isn't learning FUN... I had another word for this but Oops, no can go there.... :blush:

OMR

OK, dumbass question of the day, by me, OMR! :laugh:

For those of you who have the Z1 Enterprises gauges, when opening the gauge valves for carb synching, to get my needles to stabilize +/- 1 inch, I'm just barely opening them ~ 1/8th of a turn or so...

NOTE: this is most probably why my readings are so low! DOH! :blush:
Yeah I know, I know.... Plummen size 10 in OMR's arse.....

If I open wider, gauge needle is all over the place and yes it does fluctuate to the green line area, hard to say for sure for extremely rapid needle movements.

So, in your setups, how far you opening or any tips in using your Z1 gauges would be appreciated...

Are you guys opening a couple of turns for full vacuum pulls into the gauges?

If so, then how are you stabilizing the needle movements?

As previously mentioned, CARBs are not my thing, total noob here.... DOH!

Thanks,

OMR

that maybe so but three weeks ago you didn't know anything about cam's ether and know look at you a published author on the subject[yes i printed it] in a very short period of time you will become an expert on this subject as well. i just wish some of my student's were as motivated.

Wait a gosh darn minute.... (Arrrgggghhhh, saying wording as such is sooooooooooooooo painful).... :laugh: :laugh:

Driving into work I was number crunching (analyzing)this issue and then it hit me, I'm thinking this all wrong!!!!

If I open the gauge valves wider, the needles are fluctuating to higher vacuum levels. Somewhat unreadable but higher just the same and approximately to the GREEN line.

But what am I trying to do at this point is synchronize all 4 carbs so they operate in unison! Meaning, it's not the value that's important at this point, only that all 4 are working exactly the same in gauge meter deviations.

With this in mind, open the valves so the fluction is <=.8" of flucuation in needle movement.

Example: Once synched, Idling @ 1500rpms, all 4 carbs show a 2" vacumm (Kawi Shop manual spec +/- .8" bwn each carb). In throttling up to 5000rpm, all 4 should rise in unison to hypothetical 5" vacumm. DOH!!!!! :ohmy: Lightbulb!!!

Ok all you carb guru's, would this be the correct way to think this?

OMR

yes grasshopper you are on the right track it really doesn't matter what the numbers are as long as it idles well and they pull evenly all the way thru the rev range. i know some guy's will sqwak that the numbers aren't high enough but all kinds of things have an effect on that cam timing cam duration and lift that kind of thing.large two stroke snowmobiles have all most no vacuam at all but it is still important to have the carb's sync'd and pulling the same. these are words to live by give the engine what it want's not what you want it to have.

as long as it idles well and they pull evenly all the way thru the rev range

Well gosh darn gobbely gobblers (oh thats so wrong )
why the HELL didn't you say that in the first place....
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Thanks TB

Old Man Rock wrote:

as long as it idles well and they pull evenly all the way thru the rev range

Well gosh darn gobbely gobblers (oh thats so wrong )
why the HELL didn't you say that in the first place....
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Thanks TB

Thinking Somebody already did. :laugh:

Why 1500 rpm? Isn't that a little too high? I generally go for 1000-1200. Oem Mikuni 26's afford my KZ900-B1 LTD (1015cc) a steady idle down to 900-1000 rpm when warm. But perhaps with your existing carbs and engine mods (being more high-strung?), the 1500 rpm idle is more suitable.

As known, the oem bike tachs are unreliable at these low tick-over rpm idle speeds.

Am still using the old fashion mercury manometer.

Good Luck!

Oh right Patton,

Imo, getting the columns to equal levels is the critical factor, regardless of intake/exhaust configuration.

...

And I was supposed to figure that out from a different posting especially regarding different configurations such as carbs, combustions, head work, engine cc/camshaft setup.... hahahahahaha Your killin me brother :laugh: :laugh:

I'm not that smart gosh darn it.... :blink: :laugh:

As for the 1500rpm range, this was recomended just to get everything ~ in the same range for synch adjustments. Once all 4 synched then in using the main idle adjustment screw, bump her down between 1000-1200 rpms...

OMR

www.carbtune.com/

This is the way to go, I really recommend Morgan Carbtune. And they have excellent instructions on their website too. And not too expencive.