several issues :(

  • kawirider
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several issues :(

05 Aug 2018 09:19
#788232
So today i decided i was going to ride my 1978 kz650 (b2) on a ride to a local car and bike show since i just got it running great (or so i thought).The approximate temp outside was around 86 Fahrenheit (warmer than i unusually ride in) .The ride was approximately 25 minutes mostly on the highway and i didnt have any problems aside from a strange loud ticking noise which increased in frequency with rpms (first issue). when i exited the highway and slowed to a stop the idle dropped a tad but the bike was still running smoothly so i continued on. Right as i was getting to the show the bike died on me sitting in traffic (i had yet to fine tune the idle mixture screws as i had no baseline to tune them from so i figured it was just an idle circuit problem which is typically no big deal). I tried to turn the engine over with the starter but the starter was barely powerful enough to turn it over so i decided to kick it over to get the bike running again (second issue). Im not sure if it was because the engine was hot or something was wrong with the kickstart mechanism but when i tried to kick it over it felt like the cylinders had 500 psi of compression. My full body weight slamming on the kickstarter would barely turn the engine over at all (third issue). i eventually got the starter to turn the engine over and make it to the show. 
The same exact thing happened as i was making my way home from the show.l

What i know at this point:
Issue 1:
the ticking noise is coming from the valvetrain/top end and increases with engine rpms
it is ever-present even at idle and while the engine is cold
the cam chain is properly tensioned and the CCT is working as it should

Issue 2:
the starter is functioning as it should when engine is cold and bike starts up fine when cold
the battery holds voltage 
the charging system works

issue 3:
i ran a COLD compression test on all cylinders after i replaced some cam chain guide wheels and rubber dampers and each cylinder read 130 psi
i just now tried to run a HOT compression test and i cant get the starter to turn over at all or the kickstarter to turn over the engine for a sufficient test so i dont know the difference between the cold and hot compression test readings
the kickstarter will rotate the engine but it takes tremendous amount of force

i had just changed the oil last night, the sparkplugs look very good, and there is no carbon buildup on the pistons

i think a likely possibility is predetonation of the air fuel mixture due to unusually high compression in conjunction with a heat soak issue with the starter but that would not explain the kickstarter being unusually hard to rotate.

I really would appreciate some guidance as i really want to ride and appreciate this bike without it being unreliable

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  • hardrockminer
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Re: several issues :(

05 Aug 2018 09:30
#788233
When you changed the oil did you change the filter?  Check your oil level.

When you did the hot compression test did you pull all the plugs?
I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.

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  • kawirider
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Re: several issues :(

05 Aug 2018 09:45
#788235
hardrockminer wrote: When you changed the oil did you change the filter?  Check your oil level.

When you did the hot compression test did you pull all the plugs?

yes i did change the filter, oil level is perfect, and no i did not think to pull the other plugs i will try that as soon as i can

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Re: several issues :(

05 Aug 2018 09:47
#788236
it never really occurred to me that the problem could have simply been the bike overheating as the engine has trouble idling when its very hot and that would explain the pistons "sticking" to the cylinder walls and rendering both starting mechanisms useless. but is that is the problem i dont know the solution because i was at highway speeds and it wasnt over 90 degrees out

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  • Nessism
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Re: several issues :(

05 Aug 2018 09:53
#788237
You may want to try removing all the plugs and then seeing if the kick starter turns the engine over easier.  

Typically poor hot engine running, particularly idling, is traced to poor valve adjustment (valves too tight which can lead to burning and engine damage).

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Re: several issues :(

05 Aug 2018 10:00
#788238
Nessism wrote: You may want to try removing all the plugs and then seeing if the kick starter turns the engine over easier.  

Typically poor hot engine running, particularly idling, is traced to poor valve adjustment (valves too tight which can lead to burning and engine damage).
i would agree with you but i just adjusted the valves a week ago and all of the clearances are in spec

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Re: several issues :(

05 Aug 2018 10:52
#788242
I think the manual (Z1) says compression tests should always be done with plugs out and throttle fully advanced.
I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.

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  • baldy110
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Re: several issues :(

05 Aug 2018 14:12
#788266
Are you sure you did the oil change correctly and put in the correct amount of oil?  It sounds like it overheated due to lack of oil (noisy valve train) which caused the pistons to sieze.  I've routinely ride mine hard in temps well over 115 with no issue's.  The high air temps shouldn't cause any issues.

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Re: several issues :(

05 Aug 2018 18:25
#788289
hardrockminer wrote: I think the manual (Z1) says compression tests should always be done with plugs out and throttle fully advanced.

i will redo the compression test when i can just to make sure but i have doubts about the other plugs being in changing the compression that much

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Re: several issues :(

05 Aug 2018 18:26
#788290
baldy110 wrote: Are you sure you did the oil change correctly and put in the correct amount of oil?  It sounds like it overheated due to lack of oil (noisy valve train) which caused the pistons to sieze.  I've routinely ride mine hard in temps well over 115 with no issue's.  The high air temps shouldn't cause any issues.

yes oil level and viscosity were the first things i made sure were correct before i even came to the forums for advice

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