650 CSR fork seal

Changing the oil and seals on my 81 forks and started to put the new OEM seal (92049-1101) into the lower housing with the open part up, because that's how the old (leaky and loose) one was. Got it well started but I thought I'd better make sure because the manual doesn't specify the orientation. Posts here suggest the open part and spring should face down and the flat side up, but posts elsewhere on the net are ambiguous. The picture in the manual isn't very clear, but does seem to show the flat part up. Anywho I pulled it out and put it in flat side up, and it is in all the way (it has that solid "CLUNK" sound like wood hitting wood that says its not going any farther) but the snap ring can't quite engage with the groove. I have pounded a piece of PVC pipe the same diameter as the seal repeatedly, and harder than I want to. Its simply not going in any farther.  Now I'm back to wondering if I had it right the first time. So what the heck?   
 

Yes you have it the correct way round.Did you put a smear of oil on the outer surface of the seal?

Ok, it was long time ago, and we MAY NOT the have same fork design.   I own a newer '91 Zephyr 750, and I had same problem with new aftermarket seals.... not low enough to clear groove for spring, in spite of the pounding. 

..There was a lower metal bushing which is not completely circular, but has a gap,...I ground/filed the gap a bit, making wider.....This made the bushing closed more about the slider and settled down in its recess(tube).  Then reassembled and hit it,...... the seal got lower clearing the groove......I believe that bushing acts as spring, and is the one having to be pull-hammered when taking fork apart. 

If this helps

As a general reference point, on all "lip seals" the inner lip with the spring should always face towards what you want it to contain, the idea being the oil etc being contained pushes against the inner lip sealing it tighter on the moving element. The more pressure that is applied the tighter it seals (it would normally only be reversed if it is trying to "keep something out" like the throttle shaft seals on BS carbs)

Something that might help? I never use a pounding action when installing these seals but just a length of all-rod with appropriate spacers or old seal as a guide "pulling" them squarely down. Of course this only works if you have a fork tube without bushing on the end. And..you have to prep the bore where seal inserts, no burrs or gouges first!! Vulcanized outside rubber on seal can/will catch on these and make it super difficult to install. i've always coated the bore and seal with red rubber grease but grease will work too. Honda GL Goldwings are the worst!!     

I did lightly grease the seal, and started it by using the old seal to tap on. Like I said it is in as far as it will go. That sound of a fully seated seal is unmistakable.

Double checking that its the right seal, but the KYB part number (13361-01508) does not come up anywhere so that's no help. I have another seal coming today for the other fork, which I have not taken apart yet. Maybe those will yield clues.  If I could find a thinner washer that it sits on that would solve it, but its already a thin washer so I doubt I could find one

Edit: took the other one apart and it was no help. It had the same kind of very loose aftermarket (GCI) seal, this time in the correct orientation but had the washer on TOP of the seal which is not how the parts diagram shows it. 
 
 

Are you sure the bush is fully down (flush with housing) upside down seals would suggest you are not the first visitor!!!

The bushing sits below the ledge that the washer and oil seat sit on, and it appears to be situated all the way in, correctly. It doesn't appear to interfere. 

Just got the 2nd seal from a different seller, and it matches the other KYB seal. So I have the right seals, and the mystery remains.  

I think the previous explorer had the same issue that I'm having. I'm not even sure they used the right seals. Heck I'm not even sure they are fork seals. Their seals were only about 6mm thick, so they had no trouble getting the snap rings on. 

The OEM seals are almost 10mm thick. As best as I can measure, that's exactly how much room there is between the stepped ledge and the beginning of the step ring groove. IOW there is no room for the washer. There are a few worthless youtubes on replacing seals on this bike but the only pretty decent video does not even show a washer being removed or replaced. That would certainly solve my problem. His seals measure the same as OEM. he also had a ridiculous time getting them in all the way, even without the washer.     

I may have to take it to my local powersports guy and see what he thinks or maybe I'll just leave out the washer. Other than making it easier to remove the seals, I'm not sure what good it does.  

The washer is likely to prevent the bush drifting out, question is are they the right washers? Should they sit inside the outer lip of the seal

The fork and bushing only, showing from top to bottom the bushing, the seal seat, and the snap ring groove



With washer in place, as the Partzilla diagram shows  www.partzilla.com/catalog/kawasaki/motor...ont-fork-81-82-h1-h2




A better view of the bushing and bore. I can't tell for sure and I don't know how thick that bushing is, but I think part of its thickness is held in place by the underside of the seal seat ledge. At any rate its clearly not interfering with the washer or seal

There's also this photo of Martin-CSR's (what happened to him anyway?) 81 CSR forks disassembled. I don't see a washer over or under that seal. I wish he was still around to ask but he seems to have vanished from this forum 2 years ago and is rarely seen on "that other one."