My Z1 needs carbs synced NEED MANOMETER recommend

I do not have a manometer aka 'Carb sync tool' and will soon buy one (like tomorrow would be good).

I checked and Harbor Freight does not carry them.

I want to buy the kind I saw as a kid in bike magazines for sale -- it was called 'Carb Stix' and it had four side-by-side mercury tubes and you hooked the Carb Stix up, one hose on each vacuum test port on the intakes.

Any recommendations? I know I won't find one tomorrow at the auto parts store or anywhere else.

My Z1-Classic is running good but I'm pretty sure the injectors are out of sync due to a rough idle and jumpy transition from closed throttle to 1/4 open to get the bike rolling from a fully not-moving condition.
But it has very nice running once I get on the road!
Like pull your arms out the socket.

EDIT: Okay I found a couple on ebay: the SyncPRO by Motionpro, and a couple that have four actual dial gauges -- any recommendations on which of these to avoid or is easiest to use? I've never owned or used one.

there are a couple of threads with extensive discussions on this subject, I aint goin THERE again, do a search, its there

stonemaster wrote:

there are a couple of threads with extensive discussions on this subject, I aint goin THERE again, do a search, its there

Thanks, I type in 'manometer' in the search box on the right side of the page after checking 'KZrider.com' and push the 'Submit Query' and the result is 'No Matching Documents.' Then I remember "ahh sheet I forgot theres 2 search boxes here" and found your thread -- that's part of the advice I wanted, what NOT to buy and I will be buying the "Morgan Carbtune" at www.carbtune.com/ and will NOT be buying that Motion pro tool.



DOES anyone do 'carb sync' on a fuel injected bike like my 1980 Z1 Classic kz1000? Is there a 'master injector' that is not adjustable to which the other 3 injectors have to be matched to?

Any difference btwn taking a vacuum reading/adjusting on injectors versus carbs?

i didnt buy the carbtune but some like it, I got a merc manometer from a goldwing site, u should do well, vacuum gauges are the best IMO but really pricey

since a fuel injected bike dont have carbs I doubt it would work but I dont have a clue
remember Google is ur friend if u do the right search terms

Yes, fuel injected bikes do need to have the throttle bodies synced. Even my 2004 zx-10r requires it. When you synchronize them you are not adjusting the fuel flow. What you are adjusting is the throttle butterfly or slide position relative to the other carburetors or throttle bodies. I am not familiar with the specifics of the Z1 classic, but there must be some way to sync the four throttle bodies. I'm sure that someone with model specific knowledge will chime in shortly.

testarossa wrote:

Yes, fuel injected bikes do need to have the throttle bodies synced. Even my 2004 zx-10r requires it. When you synchronize them you are not adjusting the fuel flow. What you are adjusting is the throttle butterfly or slide position relative to the other carburetors or throttle bodies. I am not familiar with the specifics of the Z1 classic, but there must be some way to sync the four throttle bodies. I'm sure that someone with model specific knowledge will chime in shortly.

Correct, and this is the same for CV type carbs as well.

For a baseline setting, you can use a small drill bit. Use it as you would a feeler gauge, setting all the slides/butterflys at the same height. This is not accurate to spec, but makes for a nice place to start when tuning, and you can be sure that each cylinder is getting fairly same amount of mixture.

Very accurate gauges like the Morgan Carb Tune Pro are expensive for most. You can use accurate vacuum guages, but they must be clearly marked for to get within 2cm vacuum, and ideally perfectly same vac readings.

Best of luck!

Here are some bits from the FSM, you have one don't you?
If not a pdf version can be downloaded on this site @ this link:
www.kawiworld.com/index.php?option=com_c...icle&id=77&Itemid=99
There are threads on how to build your own set of sticks for pretty cheap, I spent less than $10. Here is 1 I started it will give you the Idea:
kzrider.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&...ew&catid=3&id=309315

I have a Morgan.Seems to work very well and is very easy to use.bj

Motor Head wrote:

Here are some bits from the FSM, you have one don't you?
If not a pdf version can be downloaded on this site @ this link:
www.kawiworld.com/index.php?option=com_c...icle&id=77&Itemid=99
There are threads on how to build your own set of sticks for pretty cheap, I spent less than $10. Here is 1 I started it will give you the Idea:
kzrider.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&...ew&catid=3&id=309315

Attachment KZ1100_Throttle_Body_Sync.doc not found

Thank you MH, I have that manual but is does not cover the 1015cc 1980 Z1 Classic, fuel injected. There are parts that are similar found in the 1100 manual and I have my copy -- but I found some things that differed and to avoid confusing myself I stopped referring to that 1100 manual.

Really, what I was after was which tool is best because there are different types out there - a 'carb stix' type with 4 columns of ethylene glycol, another stix with mercury that's hard to come by lately, the digital one from England (Morgan carbtune), and the kind with the 4 round gauges.

I found one today in a local shop but it's the SyncPro glycol one and thus far, folks have reported irregular calibration across the different tubes and a couple other issues.

So I'm still looking for the right tool. I don't want to spend $100 +/- when there is a 'some good, some bad' responses on the board here with the glycol stix tool.

I've gotten a sense that the butterfly valve adjustment on the (carb? injector?) bodies is pretty much the same as on regular carbs. I have done neither -- I have never used a sync tool on carbs. I only do a 'bench set' using a piece of dry spaghetti in the back of each carb then adjust until all the spaghetti sticks moved simultaneously.

So the best tool recommendation seems to be the Morgan and that's the direction I'm headed. I just ordered the Morgan carbtuner with the pouch for 65 pounds. Now comes the wait. Meanwhile it's clear and sunny and in the sixties here in Silicon Valley, good riding weather, and I read this on the Carbtune page about shipping from the UK to the U.S., I hope that "patience is a virtue" deal is the way to go, I'll be riding with a rough idle for a couple weeks I reckon:

"USA CUSTOMERS PLEASE NOTE THERE ARE DELIVERY DELAYS CAUSED BY EXTRA HOMELAND SECURITY MEASURES. FROM 18 NOVEMBER (AFTER PRINTER CARTRIDGE BOMB) ALL PARCELS, AFTER THEY LAND AT THE AIRPORT IN THE USA, ARE THEN ROAD FREIGHTED, RATHER THAN AIR AS BEFORE, TO THEIR DESTINATION IN THE USA. THIS HAS GREATLY INCREASED THE NORMALLY GOOD DELIVERY TIMES TO THE USA. SORRY ABOUT THESE DELAYS."

I have both for sale the newer motion pro and the older carb stix with mercury shoot me an email to b.flood@myactv.net if interested both work great.
Barry

newOld_kz1000 wrote:

I'll be riding with a rough idle for a couple weeks I reckon:

"USA CUSTOMERS PLEASE NOTE THERE ARE DELIVERY DELAYS CAUSED BY EXTRA HOMELAND SECURITY MEASURES. FROM 18 NOVEMBER (AFTER PRINTER CARTRIDGE BOMB) ALL PARCELS, AFTER THEY LAND AT THE AIRPORT IN THE USA, ARE THEN ROAD FREIGHTED, RATHER THAN AIR AS BEFORE, TO THEIR DESTINATION IN THE USA. THIS HAS GREATLY INCREASED THE NORMALLY GOOD DELIVERY TIMES TO THE USA. SORRY ABOUT THESE DELAYS."

The shipping doesnt take very long from UK, but by all means if your in a hurry, explore your options.

PS, the Morgan unit isnt digital... it uses pre-calibrated vacuum chambers and rods, and works very well indeed.

You say rough idle... even with a basic manual sync, the idle is usually not very rough. you may have another gremlin about, or be barking up the wrong tree.

What have you done to diagnose/fix your rough idle??

TeK9iNe wrote:

You say rough idle... even with a basic manual sync, the idle is usually not very rough. you may have another gremlin about, or be barking up the wrong tree.

What have you done to diagnose/fix your rough idle??

Great question.
1) newish battery (bought a new Yuasa for my '78 kz1000a2 a few months back and put it in this bike)

2) did a valve clearance check -- all were within spec.

3) new plugs

4) new oil and filter (course that wont affect the idle!)

5) check ignition advancer to make sure it was not sticking -- it wasn't, this bike has been inside all its life, the area behind the points cover was spotless, no moisture

The bike has 23k original miles on her.

THIS BABY RIPS! For whatever reason it feels MUCH more powerful than my '78 that is carb'd.

The only thing still on my 'to do' list is to remove and boil the petcock in vinegar. But I doubt it's an issue -- the '80 Z1 classic has a bigole gas filter, the size of my large breed dog's paw, and is transparent and the fuel delivery is fine, the see-through big gas filter is always full.

I even popped the gas cap open and rode around with that to test if the breather in the cap might be clogged, creating a vacuum in the gas tank leading to poor fuel flow out the tank -- nope.

It just idles a bit rough. Not to the point of dying on me, it's just that the revs fluctuate.

And then there's that big hesitation from zero to 1/4 throttle opening.

Once she's rolling, wow feels kind of like my 2002 R1.
Even though I know it's only got 100 or so.


EDIT: Forgot, I bought a 3-tank treatment for cleaning out the injectors. I'm about half way through the first 5 gallon gas tank with 1/3rd of the 'injector cleaner' treatment. After 2 more full 5-gallon fill-ups, I will have run through the full bottle of injector cleaner.

Fuel injection is new to me, is it possible the rough idle is caused by dirty injectors? this bike has not been rode since 2001, it sat for a LONG time.

Normally on a bike sat that long I'm pulling/disassembling/cleaning the carbs.

I have not done so with the injectors.
Perhaps whatever is equivalent to a normal carb's "Pilot fuel and air jet passages" are also small ports in the injectors too, and maybe they are clogged?