TOPIC:

if you go oversize on the TB's (within reason) you really don't lose much in the way of driveability. Unlike a carb, you are not asking the TB to mix the fuel and air for you. The TB's are simply there to meter air. There is a limit to anything, and formula's to figure out where you need to be. Kept within a couple of mm's of what you resolve for an answer, bigger is not always a problem.

If I can boost the electrical systems on some of my older bikes, knowing the MS will read a 50rpm signal, I may convert almost all of my older stuff over......too easy!

Carbs are fine, they work, and no one in their right mind will argue that. On the other hand, carb tech really has not changed in any dramatic way since the 40's. Configs change, sizes, throat numbers, but the underlying tech has not changed. Carbs are not as efficient as a well done EFI setup....period. I am after two folds with a conversion on anything I drive/ride.....max power (reliably) and fuel economy (reliably). Setting up the maps properly will afford me the best of all worlds....you just can't do that with a carb.

Doc

Hi
I bought a KZ1100 A3 recently which has been converted to EFI. I think that all the components for the conversion are from a GPZ1100. It is not running brilliantly at the moment and seems to be just firing on 3 or sometimes 2. The HT leads and plug caps are pretty shot so I am replacing them with Taylor wires and Dyna coils and see if that does the trick. I have also ordered a fuel return valve for a G1 Classic from Redline as there is just an old petcock in the "on" position screwed into the right hand side of the tank and an inline one way valve in the fuel return line.
The bike has not been on the road since 1993 but is in pretty good shape otherwise.
I have a Z1 Classic also with EFI which runs pretty good- now done 47,000 miles. I keep reading about how bad this system is and that many of them have been converted to carbs. I will stick with the EFI- much more responsive than carbs and far less maintenance. Parts are available if you look around but not cheap.
Tommo

the only thing that has me stumped at this point is a temp sensor. IAT is easy, but "coolant temp" is not so easy....considering we have to read head temp instead. I have not researched it that much, but I'd think a thermistor with good range would suffice RTV'ed or something into the fins on the back of the head.

Doc

the kz100g has a sensor in the top of the jugs, maybe you could copy that.

Either the stock thermistor from Kawasaki (GPz750 Turbo, GPz1100, KZ1000G) or one readily available from Digi-Key, etc, will work.

I run an NTC thermister epoxied into an electrical connector that is under one of the cam box bolts, you compile a new s.19 file (using easytherm) so that the ecu can read the sensor. You only need the temp sensor so that the ecu knows how much feul to add for warm up enrichment.

flht1997 wrote:

you are right that FI will eliminate all the problems associated with carbs but it will introducesyou to all the problems of fuel injection. not trying to talk you out of it at all, i have also been collecting the components to convert my 650, but i am still a ways off from starting that project.

I was under the impression that EFI was a more reliable setup compared to carbs. What are the typical problems related to EFI?

sensors going intermittent, or failing....shitty gas corking up the pump, filter, or injectors....brain failure. None of these are any more common that issues with carbs, but can be a pain to diag.

using good quality equipment (factory or aftermarket) will limit the issues you have by far. Running good gas (no cheap station crap unless you have to) will keep things in good working order as well. It really is no different than the setup under the hood of your car.

Doc

Jodyb17 wrote:

I was under the impression that EFI was a more reliable setup compared to carbs. What are the typical problems related to EFI?

You are replacing a simple system with few moving parts with a complicated system with many moving parts, and you expect it to be "more reliable" ??

Many cars go over 250,000 miles with no problems caused by the EFI system, and it is possible to do the same with carbs.

Advantages of EFI are accuracy and adaptability, resulting in more power "and" better fuel mileage, I have heard of people converting to EFI for increased reliability, but only in certain circumstances where the specific carbs were trouble prone.

steell wrote:

Jodyb17 wrote:

I was under the impression that EFI was a more reliable setup compared to carbs. What are the typical problems related to EFI?

You are replacing a simple system with few moving parts with a complicated system with many moving parts, and you expect it to be "more reliable" ??

Many cars go over 250,000 miles with no problems caused by the EFI system, and it is possible to do the same with carbs.

Advantages of EFI are accuracy and adaptability, resulting in more power "and" better fuel mileage, I have heard of people converting to EFI for increased reliability, but only in certain circumstances where the specific carbs were trouble prone.

Are there aftermarket carbs that are more reliable than the stock ones? When it was running, no matter what I did, it seems like I had to constantly dick with the choke or fuel supply knob under the tank when riding no matter how much I cleaned or what jet I was using. (I have stock air box too)

Same with the first car I had. Even after a new carb (gave up trying to get the stock one to work) I rarely had good idle.

I feel like the bike has enough power and the gas mileage is low enough to not really worry about it. With an EFI conversion, am I attempting something complicated and costly that may not work well?

I really like my KZ but I don't want to have to work on it all the time after it's "done".

You can convert to EFI for less than the cost of new aftermarket carbs.

As far as I know, there are no bolt on EFI conversions for the KZ's, it's pretty much MegaSquirt, find your own parts, and spend lot's of time tuning to get it to run the way you want.

My 750 twin, and the GPz750 motored KZ650SR, both have carbs, and both seem to run ok.
The GPz750 Turbo is fuel injected, and it runs ok (more like "HOLY CRAP!!!!" ), so it's more a question of getting things working right.

steell wrote:

You can convert to EFI for less than the cost of new aftermarket carbs.

As far as I know, there are no bolt on EFI conversions for the KZ's, it's pretty much MegaSquirt, find your own parts, and spend lot's of time tuning to get it to run the way you want.

My 750 twin, and the GPz750 motored KZ650SR, both have carbs, and both seem to run ok.
The GPz750 Turbo is fuel injected, and it runs ok (more like "HOLY CRAP!!!!" ), so it's more a question of getting things working right.

Time tuning can be done by the seat of the pants, and data logging thru a wideband O2 sensor, but to do it properly would require the wideband O2 and dyno time.

I am planning to do several of my bike projects with megasquirt in the near future, two of which are KZ's. I will be documenting both of them here in the projects section with a complete cost breakdown on each machine.

If you are interested in learning on your own follow along with the peeled onion projects thread in the projects thread.

I bet hat turbo has a pucker factor to it as the boost comes on.....man, I wanna ride that thing!

this is gonna be fun!

Doc