Camshaft Bearing seizure!! 1979 KZ1000 A3A, MKII
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Camshaft Bearing seizure!! 1979 KZ1000 A3A, MKII
Yesterday 19:09
    
    HELP!  Recent ground-up rebuild including all new cam bearings (amongst a host of other parts too numerous to list for this post). Upon first engine start, engine ran for about 40 seconds before seizing a camshaft bearing (#1 Exhaust position). Suspected poor oil passage cleaning on my part - left over swarf???  Removed head and super-cleaned all passages.  Put it back together with new bearing and fired up again.  Same response only now on the #4 Exhaust position.  Getting tired of this!  Aluminum from bearings was melted to cam on both times.  On the last time, the bearing spun and did minor damage to the head.  Appears fixable, with enough meat to support a new bearing.  I've bean able to clean the alum from the camshaft's bearing surfaces.  I'm hesitant to reinstall as I surely don't want to repeat.  Never experienced anything like this before.
1. Anybody else had similar experience?
2. I've installed a manual camchain tensioner as part of the rebuild. I'm pretty sure it's not too tight (I've successfully installed several of them over the past 35+ years with no problems) Truthfully, I'm starting to doubt myself on this one! Thoughts? Your adjustment advice?
3. Entire camchain circuit has liska steel rollers and HD Tsubaki chain.
4. I've removed the oil pan and am taking another look at the pump to ensure no obstructions. I know these engines thrive on volumetric flow more than on higher pressure. BUT - they need the most pressure at the plain bearings of the camshafts. All other bearings in the engine are roller / ball types.
5. Haven't put a pressure gauge on it. Both times, I've kicked the engine over with spark plugs removed until the oil pressure warning light went out. Usually a good indication of proper pressure/flow. Then reinstalled plugs and fired it up.
A
B
C
D
E
F After about 8 months, looking pretty good. Now to get it running!!!
Thanks in advance for your indulgence and input!
Bob F.
   
  
      1. Anybody else had similar experience?
2. I've installed a manual camchain tensioner as part of the rebuild. I'm pretty sure it's not too tight (I've successfully installed several of them over the past 35+ years with no problems) Truthfully, I'm starting to doubt myself on this one! Thoughts? Your adjustment advice?
3. Entire camchain circuit has liska steel rollers and HD Tsubaki chain.
4. I've removed the oil pan and am taking another look at the pump to ensure no obstructions. I know these engines thrive on volumetric flow more than on higher pressure. BUT - they need the most pressure at the plain bearings of the camshafts. All other bearings in the engine are roller / ball types.
5. Haven't put a pressure gauge on it. Both times, I've kicked the engine over with spark plugs removed until the oil pressure warning light went out. Usually a good indication of proper pressure/flow. Then reinstalled plugs and fired it up.
A
B
C
D
E
F After about 8 months, looking pretty good. Now to get it running!!!
Thanks in advance for your indulgence and input!
Bob F.
      EKKAWI
1976 KZ400D, 1977 KZ1000A1, 1976 KH400, 1979 XS400, 1980 KZ550A, 1980 KZ750E, 1983 GPZ550,1979 KZ1000B LTD, 1986 ZG1000 Concours,1982 XS650 Turbo,KZ1000C, KZ1000P,1978 KZ650C (×2),2003 BMW R1150RT
2014 BMW R1200RT (Current ride)
1971 Norton 750 Commando
1979 KZ1000A3A MKII (Present project)
    
  
  1976 KZ400D, 1977 KZ1000A1, 1976 KH400, 1979 XS400, 1980 KZ550A, 1980 KZ750E, 1983 GPZ550,1979 KZ1000B LTD, 1986 ZG1000 Concours,1982 XS650 Turbo,KZ1000C, KZ1000P,1978 KZ650C (×2),2003 BMW R1150RT
2014 BMW R1200RT (Current ride)
1971 Norton 750 Commando
1979 KZ1000A3A MKII (Present project)
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Re: Camshaft Bearing seizure!! 1979 KZ1000 A3A, MKII
Yesterday 19:51
    
    Did you use any type of assembly
lube, or just flood it with engine oil? Not sure if it matters but would be good to know.
Later, Doug
  
      lube, or just flood it with engine oil? Not sure if it matters but would be good to know.
Later, Doug
      1978 z1000 Streetfighter
1976 z900 Stripfighter
1979 z650 Resto-Mod
1983 Gpz750 Resto-Mod
2018 Z900RS
    
  
  1976 z900 Stripfighter
1979 z650 Resto-Mod
1983 Gpz750 Resto-Mod
2018 Z900RS
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Re: Camshaft Bearing seizure!! 1979 KZ1000 A3A, MKII
Yesterday 20:06
    
    Where did you get the bearings?  
  
      
      Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229
    
  
  kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229
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Re: Camshaft Bearing seizure!! 1979 KZ1000 A3A, MKII
Yesterday 01:55 - Yesterday 01:57
    
    Those look like aftermarket bearings (the OE ones have a chamfer around the oil hole) lot's of guys on here have had problems with these. Did you plastigauge to check the clearance ?
OEM aren't cheap but probably less than multiple sets of aftermarket
  
      OEM aren't cheap but probably less than multiple sets of aftermarket
      1982 KZ1000 Ltd
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/617631...-82-begins?start=192
kzrider.com/filebase-alias?view=download...d-fault-diagnosis&ca
    
    
  
  www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/617631...-82-begins?start=192
kzrider.com/filebase-alias?view=download...d-fault-diagnosis&ca
    Last edit: Yesterday 01:57  by Wookie58.      
  
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Re: Camshaft Bearing seizure!! 1979 KZ1000 A3A, MKII
Yesterday 03:18
    
    It looks like you have used cheap pattern shells of which most are known have poor tolerances and bearing material which causes this issue .
Get rid of them and fit GENUINE..
Also have you had the head skimmed by any chance ?
   
  
      Get rid of them and fit GENUINE..
Also have you had the head skimmed by any chance ?
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Re: Camshaft Bearing seizure!! 1979 KZ1000 A3A, MKII
Yesterday 08:58
    
    You may be onto something....  feeling sheepish now!!
I flooded engine and cams with oil. Used hypo grease for assembly. 20w50 oil in the crankcase.
Some of my best educational moments have also been the most expensive....
TY for your input!!
   
  
      I flooded engine and cams with oil. Used hypo grease for assembly. 20w50 oil in the crankcase.
Some of my best educational moments have also been the most expensive....
TY for your input!!
      EKKAWI
1976 KZ400D, 1977 KZ1000A1, 1976 KH400, 1979 XS400, 1980 KZ550A, 1980 KZ750E, 1983 GPZ550,1979 KZ1000B LTD, 1986 ZG1000 Concours,1982 XS650 Turbo,KZ1000C, KZ1000P,1978 KZ650C (×2),2003 BMW R1150RT
2014 BMW R1200RT (Current ride)
1971 Norton 750 Commando
1979 KZ1000A3A MKII (Present project)
    
  
  1976 KZ400D, 1977 KZ1000A1, 1976 KH400, 1979 XS400, 1980 KZ550A, 1980 KZ750E, 1983 GPZ550,1979 KZ1000B LTD, 1986 ZG1000 Concours,1982 XS650 Turbo,KZ1000C, KZ1000P,1978 KZ650C (×2),2003 BMW R1150RT
2014 BMW R1200RT (Current ride)
1971 Norton 750 Commando
1979 KZ1000A3A MKII (Present project)
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Re: Camshaft Bearing seizure!! 1979 KZ1000 A3A, MKII
Yesterday 09:02
    
    Aftermarket from Japan.  After reading the other comments, I'm of the impression you all are on to something.  At least that will be a relatively simple fix.  Along with better assembly lube.  Will get dedicated Camshaft assembly lube from Napa later today.  That plus OEM (ouch$$) bearings and we'll see how it goes.
Thank you!!
  
      Thank you!!
      EKKAWI
1976 KZ400D, 1977 KZ1000A1, 1976 KH400, 1979 XS400, 1980 KZ550A, 1980 KZ750E, 1983 GPZ550,1979 KZ1000B LTD, 1986 ZG1000 Concours,1982 XS650 Turbo,KZ1000C, KZ1000P,1978 KZ650C (×2),2003 BMW R1150RT
2014 BMW R1200RT (Current ride)
1971 Norton 750 Commando
1979 KZ1000A3A MKII (Present project)
    
  
  1976 KZ400D, 1977 KZ1000A1, 1976 KH400, 1979 XS400, 1980 KZ550A, 1980 KZ750E, 1983 GPZ550,1979 KZ1000B LTD, 1986 ZG1000 Concours,1982 XS650 Turbo,KZ1000C, KZ1000P,1978 KZ650C (×2),2003 BMW R1150RT
2014 BMW R1200RT (Current ride)
1971 Norton 750 Commando
1979 KZ1000A3A MKII (Present project)
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Re: Camshaft Bearing seizure!! 1979 KZ1000 A3A, MKII
Yesterday 09:04
    
    As Wookie58 said also......  Thank you for the info.  Will be obtaining some OEM.  
  
      
      EKKAWI
1976 KZ400D, 1977 KZ1000A1, 1976 KH400, 1979 XS400, 1980 KZ550A, 1980 KZ750E, 1983 GPZ550,1979 KZ1000B LTD, 1986 ZG1000 Concours,1982 XS650 Turbo,KZ1000C, KZ1000P,1978 KZ650C (×2),2003 BMW R1150RT
2014 BMW R1200RT (Current ride)
1971 Norton 750 Commando
1979 KZ1000A3A MKII (Present project)
    
  
  1976 KZ400D, 1977 KZ1000A1, 1976 KH400, 1979 XS400, 1980 KZ550A, 1980 KZ750E, 1983 GPZ550,1979 KZ1000B LTD, 1986 ZG1000 Concours,1982 XS650 Turbo,KZ1000C, KZ1000P,1978 KZ650C (×2),2003 BMW R1150RT
2014 BMW R1200RT (Current ride)
1971 Norton 750 Commando
1979 KZ1000A3A MKII (Present project)
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Re: Camshaft Bearing seizure!! 1979 KZ1000 A3A, MKII
Yesterday 13:38
    
    Confirmed!  Got some sh*tty bearings.  Pics below for comparison. 
Once cleaned up, I think there is enough meat on the head to support a proper OEM bearing with sufficient oil supply. No damage to the bearing cap. Can't afford to toss/rebuild the head for the amount of damage incurred. Don't plan on racing around too much on this one. Will mostly be a show-off bike at local meets, 'gentlemanly' riding through the foothills, etc.
To answer some predictable questions - I did not plasti-gauge the bearings with cams in place. The cams spun very smoothly on the bench with new (junk) aftermarket bearings in place, and no valves in the head. No indication of any issues until engine completed and fired up.
Aftermarket on the left. OEM on right. Chamfer easily visible on OEM
Same. Note bi-metal layers in the OEM. One layer of aluminum only in aftermarket
OEM has production/manufacturer and size stamped on the back side.
nothing on back of aftermarket.
Much thanks to all! Will post when running..
  
      Once cleaned up, I think there is enough meat on the head to support a proper OEM bearing with sufficient oil supply. No damage to the bearing cap. Can't afford to toss/rebuild the head for the amount of damage incurred. Don't plan on racing around too much on this one. Will mostly be a show-off bike at local meets, 'gentlemanly' riding through the foothills, etc.
To answer some predictable questions - I did not plasti-gauge the bearings with cams in place. The cams spun very smoothly on the bench with new (junk) aftermarket bearings in place, and no valves in the head. No indication of any issues until engine completed and fired up.
Aftermarket on the left. OEM on right. Chamfer easily visible on OEM
Same. Note bi-metal layers in the OEM. One layer of aluminum only in aftermarket
OEM has production/manufacturer and size stamped on the back side.
nothing on back of aftermarket.
Much thanks to all! Will post when running..
      EKKAWI
1976 KZ400D, 1977 KZ1000A1, 1976 KH400, 1979 XS400, 1980 KZ550A, 1980 KZ750E, 1983 GPZ550,1979 KZ1000B LTD, 1986 ZG1000 Concours,1982 XS650 Turbo,KZ1000C, KZ1000P,1978 KZ650C (×2),2003 BMW R1150RT
2014 BMW R1200RT (Current ride)
1971 Norton 750 Commando
1979 KZ1000A3A MKII (Present project)
    
  
  1976 KZ400D, 1977 KZ1000A1, 1976 KH400, 1979 XS400, 1980 KZ550A, 1980 KZ750E, 1983 GPZ550,1979 KZ1000B LTD, 1986 ZG1000 Concours,1982 XS650 Turbo,KZ1000C, KZ1000P,1978 KZ650C (×2),2003 BMW R1150RT
2014 BMW R1200RT (Current ride)
1971 Norton 750 Commando
1979 KZ1000A3A MKII (Present project)
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Re: Camshaft Bearing seizure!! 1979 KZ1000 A3A, MKII
Yesterday 13:44
    
    From Zed...
Also have you had the head skimmed by any chance ?
Head not skimmed. Checked okay for flat when apart, prior to rebuild.
Tks!
  
      Also have you had the head skimmed by any chance ?
Head not skimmed. Checked okay for flat when apart, prior to rebuild.
Tks!
      EKKAWI
1976 KZ400D, 1977 KZ1000A1, 1976 KH400, 1979 XS400, 1980 KZ550A, 1980 KZ750E, 1983 GPZ550,1979 KZ1000B LTD, 1986 ZG1000 Concours,1982 XS650 Turbo,KZ1000C, KZ1000P,1978 KZ650C (×2),2003 BMW R1150RT
2014 BMW R1200RT (Current ride)
1971 Norton 750 Commando
1979 KZ1000A3A MKII (Present project)
    
  
  1976 KZ400D, 1977 KZ1000A1, 1976 KH400, 1979 XS400, 1980 KZ550A, 1980 KZ750E, 1983 GPZ550,1979 KZ1000B LTD, 1986 ZG1000 Concours,1982 XS650 Turbo,KZ1000C, KZ1000P,1978 KZ650C (×2),2003 BMW R1150RT
2014 BMW R1200RT (Current ride)
1971 Norton 750 Commando
1979 KZ1000A3A MKII (Present project)
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Re: Camshaft Bearing seizure!! 1979 KZ1000 A3A, MKII
Yesterday 14:02
    
    No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationSee attached ebay item, #165800038169. "Kawasaki 13034-030 Z1 K1100 KZ1000 KZ900 Camshaft Bushing Set of 8 NEW Genuine"
Appears to be the right bearings.
Y/N ?
  
  
      Appears to be the right bearings.
Y/N ?
      EKKAWI
1976 KZ400D, 1977 KZ1000A1, 1976 KH400, 1979 XS400, 1980 KZ550A, 1980 KZ750E, 1983 GPZ550,1979 KZ1000B LTD, 1986 ZG1000 Concours,1982 XS650 Turbo,KZ1000C, KZ1000P,1978 KZ650C (×2),2003 BMW R1150RT
2014 BMW R1200RT (Current ride)
1971 Norton 750 Commando
1979 KZ1000A3A MKII (Present project)
    
  
  1976 KZ400D, 1977 KZ1000A1, 1976 KH400, 1979 XS400, 1980 KZ550A, 1980 KZ750E, 1983 GPZ550,1979 KZ1000B LTD, 1986 ZG1000 Concours,1982 XS650 Turbo,KZ1000C, KZ1000P,1978 KZ650C (×2),2003 BMW R1150RT
2014 BMW R1200RT (Current ride)
1971 Norton 750 Commando
1979 KZ1000A3A MKII (Present project)
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Re: Camshaft Bearing seizure!! 1979 KZ1000 A3A, MKII
Yesterday 14:09
    
    No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configuration  
There is only one size which is STD and any difference in the number/letter code on them just denotes batch numbers and manufacture dates.
  
      The shells are the same for ALL Z1/Z9/Z1000/Z1100,GPZ1100 air cooled engines.See attached ebay item, #165800038169. "Kawasaki 13034-030 Z1 K1100 KZ1000 KZ900 Camshaft Bushing Set of 8 NEW Genuine"
Appears to be the right bearings.
Y/N ?
There is only one size which is STD and any difference in the number/letter code on them just denotes batch numbers and manufacture dates.
      AIR CORRECTOR JETS FOR VM CARBS AND ETHANOL RESISTANT VITON CHOKE PLUNGER SEAL REPLACMENT FOR ALL CLASSIC AND MODERN MOTORCYCLE CARBURETTORS
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