Click on top engine
- Fox
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Re: Click on top engine
08 Aug 2025 18:08 - 08 Aug 2025 18:59
Hello
here with some news.
shims gap are :
from 002 003 intake and 003 004 on exhaust
cylinders compression :
1 : 140
2 : 120
3 : 120
4 : 120
i start the engine for 3mn to check if she have oil on shims.
ex : 1 yes
ex : 2 no
ex : 3 no
ex : 4 yes
int : 1 yes
int : 2 no
int : 3 no
int : 4 no
i think i need a good diagram on oil passages…
thank you
here with some news.
shims gap are :
from 002 003 intake and 003 004 on exhaust
cylinders compression :
1 : 140
2 : 120
3 : 120
4 : 120
i start the engine for 3mn to check if she have oil on shims.
ex : 1 yes
ex : 2 no
ex : 3 no
ex : 4 yes
int : 1 yes
int : 2 no
int : 3 no
int : 4 no
i think i need a good diagram on oil passages…
thank you
1978 KZ1000-B2 LTD
1977 kz1000-B1 LTD
1977 kz1000-B1 LTD
Last edit: 08 Aug 2025 18:59 by Street Fighter LTD.
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- Warren3200gt
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Re: Click on top engine
08 Aug 2025 18:40 - 08 Aug 2025 20:41
OK, valve gaps.
It's not that making the noise. If anything your valve gaps are all too tight not too big.
Valve gaps were increased by Kawasaki on a service bulletin increasing them from those in the service manual.
Valve gaps should be
0.10 - 0.18mm. (0.004 - 0.007 in).
0.15mm/0.006inch is the ideal.
Oil.
Oil is pumped up the rear engine studs on cylinders 1 & 4.
It then divides and feeds the inlet cams from the outside inwards and also through the cross drilling and then the exhaust cams from the outside in. It does this on each side. Cylinders 1&2. Cylinders 3&4.
All the valve buckets should show evidence of oil pools. Both inlet and exhaust. If all the galleries are clear then your oil pump may be the issue. Possibly the oil pump pickup guaze is dirty and partially blocked restricting flow or the pump itself is worn.
Looking at your pictures you can see the cam lobes that have oil pools have nice clean shiny surfaces. The lobes on the valves without oil pools show a wear band on central on the cam lobes.
It's not that making the noise. If anything your valve gaps are all too tight not too big.
Valve gaps were increased by Kawasaki on a service bulletin increasing them from those in the service manual.
Valve gaps should be
0.10 - 0.18mm. (0.004 - 0.007 in).
0.15mm/0.006inch is the ideal.
Oil.
Oil is pumped up the rear engine studs on cylinders 1 & 4.
It then divides and feeds the inlet cams from the outside inwards and also through the cross drilling and then the exhaust cams from the outside in. It does this on each side. Cylinders 1&2. Cylinders 3&4.
All the valve buckets should show evidence of oil pools. Both inlet and exhaust. If all the galleries are clear then your oil pump may be the issue. Possibly the oil pump pickup guaze is dirty and partially blocked restricting flow or the pump itself is worn.
Looking at your pictures you can see the cam lobes that have oil pools have nice clean shiny surfaces. The lobes on the valves without oil pools show a wear band on central on the cam lobes.
Last edit: 08 Aug 2025 20:41 by Warren3200gt.
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- kevski
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Re: Click on top engine
09 Aug 2025 03:01On your new video it sounds like it could just be excessive valve gaps and cam lobe slap. When you shimmed the gaps what measurement did you set them to.?
Confirm you have oil pools around each bucket.
See pictures below. The second pic shows lubrication of the bucket by an oil pool.
The first shows a dry bucket.
If yours are dry then the cross drill oil gallery could be blocked.
we know about the dry cam don't we, I would der if the same as happened here.
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- Warren3200gt
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Re: Click on top engine
09 Aug 2025 03:10We do indeed Kev. I've asked if he's checked the galleries but he's got so many dry buckets and the only ones with oil are the first inline on each gallery I suspect either a blocked pump guaze or a weak oil pump under supplying oil to the head. Depending how long it's been run like that those bucket slide tubes will be shot. Lot of work to put the bigger susuki ones in on that many valves.On your new video it sounds like it could just be excessive valve gaps and cam lobe slap. When you shimmed the gaps what measurement did you set them to.?
Confirm you have oil pools around each bucket.
See pictures below. The second pic shows lubrication of the bucket by an oil pool.
The first shows a dry bucket.
If yours are dry then the cross drill oil gallery could be blocked.
we know about the dry cam don't we, I would der if the same as happened here.
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Re: Click on top engine
09 Aug 2025 10:38 - 09 Aug 2025 12:13
Another thing that can lead to this as in my own case, I had a clicking on the inlet cam, it would come and go, went on for a couple of years after a head replacement, some one in their infinite wisdom had scraped I assume the head gasket face and had taken around 130 microns off on number 3, the bearing shell was sitting high and when nipped down it would pinch the cam reducing oil flow to that shell. Check to see this hasn't happened, I have now shimmed that one and it's fine, my next thing with it is to hand scrape another cap to see if I can resolve it so I don't have to use shims.
Last edit: 09 Aug 2025 12:13 by kevski.
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Re: Click on top engine
09 Aug 2025 10:55Good old 100 micron coke cans.so I don't have to use shims.
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Re: Click on top engine
09 Aug 2025 12:22
Absolutely, I had to break ou my old mitutoyo micrometer that goes to 1mic, old so not a battery version.
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Re: Click on top engine
09 Aug 2025 19:36
Today i removed the oil pump and open it.
i find that the old gasket was broken.
A part of this gasket was acting like a gate door on the oil flow reducing the amount of oil in the engine of 1/2. I read sometimes that is was not necessary to check this part more than that … i will ever do now.
i decide to remove the cylinder head and jug too to put air pression everywhere that the oil have to flow.
since i will remove all valves on the cylinder head tomorrow to clean passages do will i replace the intake 3 and 4 valves … compression test was not bad…
i find that the old gasket was broken.
A part of this gasket was acting like a gate door on the oil flow reducing the amount of oil in the engine of 1/2. I read sometimes that is was not necessary to check this part more than that … i will ever do now.
i decide to remove the cylinder head and jug too to put air pression everywhere that the oil have to flow.
since i will remove all valves on the cylinder head tomorrow to clean passages do will i replace the intake 3 and 4 valves … compression test was not bad…
1978 KZ1000-B2 LTD
1977 kz1000-B1 LTD
1977 kz1000-B1 LTD
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- Warren3200gt
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Re: Click on top engine
10 Aug 2025 01:38 - 10 Aug 2025 01:50
Well done on finding the oil pump flow issue. Low oil volume to the head will certainly cause your original ticking issue and lack of oil pools to lubricate the buckets.
I fear the damage has already been done to the bucket tubes on the head. No amount of oil now will cure the ticking made by the buckets rocking in the tubes as the cam lobes apply it's forces on the shim/bucket.
How dirty was the oil pump filter screen? Make sure it's clean and debris free before refitting.
As the compression was OK it's unlikely that you need to replace any valves and don't need to remove them to check the oil galleries are clear just remove the buckets to ensure the valve drain passages are draining oil back out.
Just check and double check that the feed oil galleries are clean and clear.
Once it's all reassembled, remove all the plugs leaving the cam cover off and turn it over on the starter motor, jumping it off a non running car battery if required, until the oil pressure light goes out and some evidence of oil pools on all buckets appears.
Once you get oil pools you know your getting adequate oil supply to the head. After that then there's not much more you can do to reduce the ticking other than major head work but at least it won't get any worse.
I fear the damage has already been done to the bucket tubes on the head. No amount of oil now will cure the ticking made by the buckets rocking in the tubes as the cam lobes apply it's forces on the shim/bucket.
How dirty was the oil pump filter screen? Make sure it's clean and debris free before refitting.
As the compression was OK it's unlikely that you need to replace any valves and don't need to remove them to check the oil galleries are clear just remove the buckets to ensure the valve drain passages are draining oil back out.
Just check and double check that the feed oil galleries are clean and clear.
Once it's all reassembled, remove all the plugs leaving the cam cover off and turn it over on the starter motor, jumping it off a non running car battery if required, until the oil pressure light goes out and some evidence of oil pools on all buckets appears.
Once you get oil pools you know your getting adequate oil supply to the head. After that then there's not much more you can do to reduce the ticking other than major head work but at least it won't get any worse.
Last edit: 10 Aug 2025 01:50 by Warren3200gt.
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- asphalt900
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Re: Click on top engine
10 Aug 2025 02:28
Was the oil pump (paper) gasket actually broken or just broke upon removal? They do get hard over the years of course. Pay attention to the endplay of the two pump gears!! There are two different type oil pumps used on the Z1/KZ1000 thru 1980, gaskets are different. If a gasket "walked" out between the plate and gear housing then something is warped. Also noteworthy, was the head ever subject to any sort of media blasting? This is critical because media can get lodged in the inner, towards camchain, oil galley that feeds the cams. That milled galley goes waay further then just the openings for #2&3 Intake and Exhaust shells. Media can get lodged back there only to free itself in operation. High emphasis on power washing the crap out is mandatory!! They used to sell different thickness's of those paper gaskets but seem to be hard to find these days, i just make my own to suit endplay requirements.
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Re: Click on top engine
10 Aug 2025 02:54
Noteworthy. If the "ticking" continues and it is indeed one or more buckets/bores that can be Catastrophic!! That means the shim is free to become dislodged because it's no longer following the travel of the cam lobes and sticking and bouncing out of its "tight" spot. Spit a shim, it'll either go thru the head or disintegrate both Bad Bad Bad.
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- Warren3200gt
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Re: Click on top engine
10 Aug 2025 03:27 - 10 Aug 2025 03:30It'd have to be extreme bucket/ bore wear for that to occur or for bucket and/or shim to have not been spotless when reassembled so that the shim is not sitting cleanly in the bucket recess.Noteworthy. If the "ticking" continues and it is indeed one or more buckets/bores that can be Catastrophic!! That means the shim is free to become dislodged because it's no longer following the travel of the cam lobes and sticking and bouncing out of its "tight" spot. Spit a shim, it'll either go thru the head or disintegrate both Bad Bad Bad.
Cases of spitting shims are mostly due to poor assembly.
If the bores were worn to the extent to allow the shim to lift over the retaining lip of the bucket the noise they made when running would be more akin to a horrendous clatter than a tick which is what seems the case here.
I do agree that due to the probable bucket/bore wear reassembly must be meticulously clean and the reason I proposed prolonged turning it over on the starter for a decent period and not just jumping in and firing it up.
Last edit: 10 Aug 2025 03:30 by Warren3200gt.
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