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thanks so much elseed and romspaceknight, neutral finder feature sounds about right when reading link the balls are on the sliding 4th gear and this seems to be the one with the problem when inspected through sump, also excellent news on crank case splitting without dissembling top end as i need to repair 3rd gear (keeps slipping) i assume this is either worn dogs or bent selector fork- any other info on gearbox appreciated- just cant wait to get this beast running, im used to little rd's and tz's. cheers mat