1980 kz440 Fuel leaking out of exhaust and foggy oil

Thanks for the info about that carb test. I’ll have to give that a try while I have them off!

Izzyrider1015 wrote:

bound wrote:

I cannot say whether cruzinimage carb parts are of good quality but generally people here have had good luck with their engine parts. The cruzinimage float valve looks like it should work fine. The extra length for the spring should be compensated by checking the fuel level (which you did) and if they werent sealing you would know.

Im a little worried that the previous jet needles were bent 

How does that happen?!?? PO must've learned to fix things with a hammer... what worries me is that since the jet needle was damaged, the needle jet is also damaged, which could be causing it to run rich.

My only other hypothesis at this point as to why your plugs are caked and fuel is getting into the crankcase is because you have poor combustion for some reason causing it to flood and fuel is getting past the rings. Reasons could be that it needs valve clearances checked, poor compression, or because your points need to be sorted through for your ignition.

I would think that the most likely reason is the points need to be looked at. Im pretty sure 1980 models still had points. while you're in there, make sure to lubricate the governer and be sure that it can turn freely since that could mess with your ignition curve.



 

Yes it appears I had problems all over the bike which is good for teaching a newbie about these vintage bikes but I just want to ride it finally.. haha. the PO didn’t make it easy for me. I think you actually hit right on the money with the contact points more. I replaced actual points right after the rebuild assuming that would take care of things. As an inexperienced mechanic I did not even check the advanced timing mechanism behind the plate. It had old crusty grease and rust on it so when I twisted it to test operation the springs couldn’t even return the weights. Since I had trouble finding another used mechanism, I just cleaned it with blue scotch brite and brake cleaner. The springs also looked stretched out so I ordered new ones. Also very hard to find but I read that springs from an xs650 would match. Cleaning and greasing solved most the problem to allow smooth twisting but the new springs allowed the weights to snap back quicker. Another thing I did was test the condenser with a multimeter and it showed 0 ohms so it wasn’t doing its job. I just got that part so I will install the new condenser, get my timing right, replace spark plugs since the last ones are fouled with fuel, and then change the oil the last time... And I’m hoping to see a stronger spark and no more fuel slipping through. I’ll update soon thanks

So I have the cleaned advanced timing mechanism back in but it did look pretty rough and it moves freely and the springs are working. The new condenser is in, my points gap is good and timing is right. I got the valve clearances checked. So after doing all that I started it up and it ran pretty good on my 5 min ride around the neighborhood. but when I got back I wanted make sure there was no fuel in the oil. I couldn't smell fuel or anything but I checked my brand new spark plugs and they did have wet black coating which smelled like fuel. I cleaned them and then started the bike again and I tried tightening the pilot screw all the way to lean it out thinking I couldn't tune it to not be so rich but It was all the way leaned out and seemed be running just about the same. it seems like my bike isn't leaking fuel into the crank case anymore but is still way rich. Im not sure if I'm troubleshooting just carbs now but it seems like it. The float tests are all right but I heard the choke plungers could be bad but looking at my carbs I dont know if they even have plungers or if so I dont see a way to access them. The other possibility I noticed is the main needle jet sleeve, AKA the needle jet, was the one from my kit and it was slightly easier to pop out (still couldn't do it with my finger) I did need to push on it with a piece of plastic but with the original sleeve I tried to put it in and I literally thought it wouldn't fit because it was so tight. Eventually I pushed with all my bodyweight until could just screw the 2nd main jet the rest of the way. so I'm just not sure if that was the issue since the other sleeve (needle jet) seemed snug enough. I also noticed the nozzle under the main jet kind of just fell out when I removed the main jet. I dont know how snug that needs to be or if the main jet is just supposed to seal it when it's screwed in. the nozzle that came with my kit is actually too big, so now I'm trying to use all the original carb parts I can at this point. Only other things I can think of rechecking are my point gap since I was struggling to make sure it was the largest opening point when setting it. but I figured I got it very close if not perfect. And then I think I should look into that battery, even thought I bought it recently I'm worried its not giving enough power. it sits on a battery tender and when I check voltage it is at 12.6 volts

If the engine is still running despite the fuel mixture screw being tightened all the way, fuel is getting into the combustion chamber in some way that it isnt supposed to. Be careful tightening the fuel mixture screw all the way with too much force because if you tighten it too much the end can break off in the carb body and will ruin your day.

Another thing i have to be sure of is that you have the plug covering the pilot jet. The pilot jet has fuel supplied through a passage connected to the main jet so if there is no plug or a poor seal it would be overly rich.

Regarding your issues with the jet needle and needle jet, it would be best if you had pictures to get a better understanding of your issue. For the main jet circuit there is the jet needle, main jet, needle jet, and emulsion tube. The needle jet should be a press fit into the carb body and the emulsion tube screws into the carb body and seats the needle jet in place. The main jet screws into the emulsion tube. 

Im assuming your issue is with the needle jet. The OEM option is always the preferred one to opt for but if it is damaged I wouldnt use it. I have heard of people struggling to seat the needle jet so just be sure that the jet is sliding in correctly or else you risk damaging the carb.

Always compare the replacement parts with the original ones to make sure that what you are using is correct. Also, when taking carbs apart just make sure to follow the service manual and take your time.

bound wrote:

If the engine is still running despite the fuel mixture screw being tightened all the way, fuel is getting into the combustion chamber in some way that it isnt supposed to. Be careful tightening the fuel mixture screw all the way with too much force because if you tighten it too much the end can break off in the carb body and will ruin your day.

Another thing i have to be sure of is that you have the plug covering the pilot jet. The pilot jet has fuel supplied through a passage connected to the main jet so if there is no plug or a poor seal it would be overly rich.

Regarding your issues with the jet needle and needle jet, it would be best if you had pictures to get a better understanding of your issue. For the main jet circuit there is the jet needle, main jet, needle jet, and emulsion tube. The needle jet should be a press fit into the carb body and the emulsion tube screws into the carb body and seats the needle jet in place. The main jet screws into the emulsion tube. 

Im assuming your issue is with the needle jet. The OEM option is always the preferred one to opt for but if it is damaged I wouldnt use it. I have heard of people struggling to seat the needle jet so just be sure that the jet is sliding in correctly or else you risk damaging the carb.

Always compare the replacement parts with the original ones to make sure that what you are using is correct. Also, when taking carbs apart just make sure to follow the service manual and take your time.

Those are good points. I actually checked the local junk yard and they had several of these carbs so I found another one for $80 that is a complete set. The guys there also said they don’t remove those needle jets because they are pressed in (I’ll attach a photo of the needle jets I took out on my original carbs) so I figured I’d just buy one and be real careful with the rebuild and have an extra. plus the floats and diaphragms looked better than mine. It was pretty gunked up but I’m doing a thorough and careful cleaning. It’s mostly gummed with only fuel and some hardened deposits in the float bowl that seems to be breaking loose as I scrub with water, soap, and carb cleaner. Would you say using an ultra sonic cleaner would be mandatory? Or even a quick soak in simple green or carb cleaner? I’m just wondering if I can get it well enough with hand tools and spray that I got. I’ll attach one photo (last photo) of the main nozzle, because it looks pressed in, but it’s brass and has side holes that I’m worried won’t get cleaned unless I remove it.

And for the plug covering the pilot screw, are you saying that will effect the bikes running condition if I leave the cap off? I currently have it off while I’m adjusting it, but I’ve consider reinstalling with some sealant because I wasn’t sure

Regarding cleaning the carbs without an ultrasonic cleaner, it really depends where the fuel has gotten. If it is only in the bowl, then making sure all the crud is out of there should be fine. If the fuel has gotten to the jets then you might have to do a more thorough cleaning.

The best alternative I've heard of to an ultrasonic cleaner is using a simple green mixture and boiling it for some time. When dipping the carbs in any strong mixture or in heat, make sure that the carbs dont have any rubber in them and ideally the carbs are separated.

Don't boil them for too long because simple green can cause the aluminum to blacken. If at all possible dont boil the carbs in the kitchen... Dont use simple green if your carbs are painted.

The main thing to be sure of is that the passages in the carbs are clear. Spray carb cleaner through all of the passages and make sure that they blow through the other end of the passage. 

For the pilot JET, there should be a plug covering this hole i believe, but its been a while since ive taken my 440 carbs apart. I've also considered blocking the pilot screw with rubber because sometimes if the oring isnt sealing, rains water can leak past the seal and cause problems.  

I have a very old can of Berryman's. I put each carb body and its hard parts in the basket, let them soak for a little while, rinse, blow dry and assemble.

www.amazon.com/Berryman-Products-0996-Ar...id=1785033587&sr=8-1

TexasKZ wrote:

I have a very old can of Berryman's. I put each carb body and its hard parts in the basket, let them soak for a little while, rinse, blow dry and assemble.

www.amazon.com/Berryman-Products-0996-Ar...id=1785033587&sr=8-1

I have an old can of berrymans but have never used it because I have an ultrasonic cleaner. What's your experience with the berry man's vs an ultrasonic cleaner?

bound wrote:

TexasKZ wrote:

I have a very old can of Berryman's. I put each carb body and its hard parts in the basket, let them soak for a little while, rinse, blow dry and assemble.

www.amazon.com/Berryman-Products-0996-Ar...id=1785033587&sr=8-1
 

I have an old can of berrymans but have never used it because I have an ultrasonic cleaner. What's your experience with the berry man's vs an ultrasonic cleaner?

I have never been disappointed by the Berryman's and have never owned an ultrasonic.

bound wrote:

The best alternative I've heard of to an ultrasonic cleaner is using a simple green mixture and boiling it for some time. When dipping the carbs in any strong mixture or in heat, make sure that the carbs dont have any rubber in them and ideally the carbs are separated.

Don't boil them for too long because simple green can cause the aluminum to blacken. 
 

That is an issue with the green Simple Green; there is a purple version that is safe for all metals and won't blacken aluminum. Yes, purple Simple Green.

simplegreen.com/products/pro-hd-cleaner-degreaser/

Nerdy wrote:

bound wrote:

The best alternative I've heard of to an ultrasonic cleaner is using a simple green mixture and boiling it for some time. When dipping the carbs in any strong mixture or in heat, make sure that the carbs dont have any rubber in them and ideally the carbs are separated.

Don't boil them for too long because simple green can cause the aluminum to blacken. 

 

That is an issue with the green Simple Green; there is a purple version that is safe for all metals and won't blacken aluminum. Yes, purple Simple Green.

simplegreen.com/products/pro-hd-cleaner-degreaser/

That's the stuff I use in my ultrasonic cleaner! It's called simple green pro hd and it works pretty well. Not as well as normal simple green but at least its not physically or chemically altering the material