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Racing my 650 hot street bike 20 Feb 2016 11:34 #711650

  • leitz
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Hi guys,
Need to drop 10 seconds off my track time to be competitive for racing my hot street/track z650. I´m focused on reliability and a easy to handle bike so at first will be a stock motor and upgraded cams. Here in Spain these bikes were not sold by goverment restrictions back in 70´s and there are no parts and no mechanics or machinist shops with big knowledge about them so engine work would be expensive by sending head away from here. Maybe next year.
There are 2 vintage champhionships and endurance races and rules changes almost each year!! but for now up to 80´s bikes and free engine prep with the stock appearance and no cc limits.
1978 Z650 Keihins Cr29 with pods, Dyna S and dyna coils, Ikon shocks +12mm long, Racetech springs and valves, fork brace, steering damper, slip ons, Harris race exhaust, Lockheed 2195 calipers and Bt45 Tyres.

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Racing my 650 hot street bike 20 Feb 2016 11:37 #711651

  • leitz
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Bike Works well on track but need to gain power at high revs (losing down due to stock motor), have a clucth slippage from 4 to 5 gear, and need make it easy to race by adjusting rake, sag, preload, valve preload and losing some weight (fiberglass seat and front fender...)
I have these parts ready to fit: Andrews #20 cams, velocity stacks, rpm limiter, Ferodo Cp1 racing pads, Z1r 18" front wheel and Moriwaki points cover
could i down about 10 seconds at least from 1´16 to 1´05 to be with the seven top guys??
Best rake for track?
Jetting for stacks?
Will Andrews #20 (close to Gpz750 83-85 cams i think) improve a stock motor?
Any info is welcome!!

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Last edit: by leitz.

Racing my 650 hot street bike 20 Feb 2016 17:57 #711724

  • floivanus
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Front fender acts as a fork brace, you can lose weight there but can add a bit of flex.
Fiberglass headlight bucket from a 1000 goldwing or cb750
Stock gauges are heavy too (not aure on your rules)
Dual front brake setup adds a lot of weight also, I'd do an ex500 (kaw ninja) single front caliper and a brake rotor lightened everywhere minus where the pad touches) and a 12mm or so front brake master.

No idea on your geometry numbers, but 18' wheels should be an improvement, 17's with modern rubber may be better
my bikes; 80kz1000(project), 77 gl1000, 74 h2 (project)
Past; 78 kz1000, 83 kz550
Andrew

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Racing my 650 hot street bike 21 Feb 2016 02:38 #711753

  • leitz
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Making a race belly pan

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Racing my 650 hot street bike 21 Feb 2016 06:31 #711767

  • spdygon
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nice looking bike sir...no engine restrictions????? Piston kit done.
1982 GS1000sz Katana ( #15...17K Miles)
1982 GS1000sz Katana ( # 297....7100k Miles)
1978 Kz1000 Z1R. 10K Miles1
1978 kz1000 z1r 27k miles
1977 KZ 1000 A ( Project ) 54K Miles
1976 Kz900A4 (Red)21K miles
1976 Kz900A4 ( Red)7500 miles
1974 Z1 900 project

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Racing my 650 hot street bike 21 Feb 2016 07:14 #711774

  • rstnick
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Paul/PZ1Morton road races a kz650.
Not sure how often he visits the site, so might want to shoot him a message, and ask what tricks he has up his sleeves.


Rob
CANADA

Need a key for your Kawasaki? PM me

1978 KZ650 C2, 130K kms, Delkevic ex, EI, CVK32, PMC easy clutch, ATK fork brace, steering damper, braced swingarm, 18" Z1R front wheel.
2000 ZRX1100
2011 Ninja 250R
2005 z750s

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Racing my 650 hot street bike 21 Feb 2016 07:20 #711775

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Steve's (forgotten his last name, not a member here) also races KZs,
He made the braced swingarm for me.






And then there's Steve Darlington, who is a member here.
I think his user name is Darlington.
TeamKZ?

I believe this is one of Darlington's bikes.
Seems like GPz wheels are common for racing:

Rob
CANADA

Need a key for your Kawasaki? PM me

1978 KZ650 C2, 130K kms, Delkevic ex, EI, CVK32, PMC easy clutch, ATK fork brace, steering damper, braced swingarm, 18" Z1R front wheel.
2000 ZRX1100
2011 Ninja 250R
2005 z750s

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Racing my 650 hot street bike 21 Feb 2016 08:22 #711784

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Aluminum spoked DID rims are around 8 lbs less each over stock (always planned on this but too expensive for me) .... not sure about how much less than mags though...... bore kit later if rules allows and cams would be huge (goggle and search here for info on the cams)....... lightened crank is worth 41/2 lbs ..... lithium battery maybe? ....... alum rear sproket just over 2 lbs.... fork brace would probably make up for use of a glass front fender..... single drilled front disc like stated..... drilling alone RC style knocks off one to one a a quarter lbs each..... glass tank might be tough to find plus not real sure how reliable..... advance timing 2 degree's ..... sure there are many small tricks known (that my very un limited knowledge knows of) ..... looking forward too seeing more !!!!
1978 KZ650 b-2
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket.

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Racing my 650 hot street bike 21 Feb 2016 10:10 #711801

  • leitz
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Thanks guys

Andrews #20 cams specs ( Modified engines up to 82 3000RPM+ stock springs and cups):

GRIND LIFT DURATION @ .030 TIMING LOBE CENTERS LASH

INT .350 252 DEG. 16/56 110 .004

EXH .350 252 DEG. 56/16 110 .004

(Stock .304 224 8/37
Kz650) .304 229 45/4

(Stock .342 248 18/50
Kz750) .335 254 53/19

Seller, who raced a 650 30 years ago told me: "set the lash at .004"-.007" and try 105 degree lobe centers for both intake and exhaust.
Also that 9500 rpm would be safe for limit and shift it at 8800 to 9000 and to use Gpz750 springs if they are the same free length."
Do you agreed with this?

So at 105 degrees LC the timing goes to 51/21 for intake and 21/51 for exhaust

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Last edit: by leitz.

Racing my 650 hot street bike 22 Feb 2016 23:24 #712054

  • turboguzzi
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if it helps you knowing, on the track i raced for the very first time in my life i managed to go down in lap times 9 seconds, but it took a good two-three years of racing to get there, me & bike to be competitive. i might be even faster now after 9 years on track, but i switched bikes so times are not comaprable.

unless you are some special rossi type talent, take your time. things look / happen very differently when you lap 10 secs faster, very rarely it will happen overnight. some racing school could be a good idea. i didnt do it, somewhat regret it.

i rev my gpz to 11,000 - 12,000, but i am with andrews #35 cams (if i remeber well), a bi wilder than yours. you have plenty more potential in that motor but it needs to breath

105 lobes is a good point to start.

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Last edit: by turboguzzi.

Racing my 650 hot street bike 23 Feb 2016 11:42 #712142

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Thanks TG,
I´ll try to upgrade the bike fitting the new parts i have now and squeeze my 25.000 miles stock motor. Then go to big bore and head probably next year.
Maybe I'm too positive but for now I think there are room for improvement:
- Z1r 18¨ front wheel and improved geometry: 2 seconds
- Fine suspensions set up: 2 secs
- Ferodo Cp1 racing pads: 2 secs
- weight lost: 1 sec
- Ebc clutch springs: 1 sec
- Velocity stacks???
- Andrews ???
Bt45 works fine but would drop a few seconds with Avons Am22/23
I will try at first 105/105 lobes. Can I try too 105/106 or 105/107? I have seen this on other bikes like yours. What is the difference?

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Last edit: by leitz.

Racing my 650 hot street bike 23 Feb 2016 15:41 #712173

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yes, i think you are a bit optimistic :) and also you are not mentioning your riding, that's where most of the gain is... early on i give my bike to an experienced racer to try and he was immediately 4 secs faster than me...

the first seconds will be easy to shave, from then on, be happy if you improve 1 sec when you visit the same track again.

if you are not able to do back to back dyno runs checking the impact of different cam timings, it's all just talk. there are no magic numbers. all depends on your cams, carbs AND pipe. so go for 105/105 and invest your time money in other areas. jetting on the dyno for example or trying different gearing/sprockets. once dropped 1.5 sec by just dropping 1 tooth back and using the gerabox less. you start lapping faster and you need to change your gearing again....

you are ok with bt45 at your current pace, go faster and race rubber is a must.... no comparison really. i run ContiRoadAttack 2 CR,

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Last edit: by turboguzzi.
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