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1980 kz550c Ltd TK22 pod filter project 21 May 2018 23:24 #783826

  • 80kz550c
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Hi all!

I know, just use the air box....Mine is shot, rubber boots are shot, pods are in hand, I’m going for it! Before I start rejetting I’ve decided to experiment with fabricating restrictor plates that fit in between the carb and the pod filter. I will be experimenting with different sized holes to see if this can be a cheap and available option instead of rejetting multiple times until it’s right. Ive Only seen mention of restrictor plates, no actual accounts of it working or anyone trying it for that matter.
After installing my filters onto freshly cleaned carbs that are in immaculate condition internally, the bike fired up and sounded good, stuttered at a quick snap of the throttle. I took it around the block, it wasn’t a rocket ship but I was moving. I was able to get up to speed while experiencing some stutter/loss of power as I hit 7000rpm I’m guessing, accompanied by a light sputtering backfire as I let off the throttle. I checked the plugs, they were white pointing towards lean. Now all of the plugs were not exactly the same shade, 2 were darker than the other ones although still lean(carbs could likely use a synchking).
Today I bought some nylon washers to act as my restrictor plates and installed them. Again, the bike idles fine and revs good but stutters at a quick snap of the throttle from idle. Gears 1-3 have great power and response and then loses power at 5000rpm. I couldn’t accelerate quite as fast as without the plate. The plugs then showed a rich mixture.
Tomorrow I’ll be doing more experimenting with bigger holes in the restrictor plate and see if this can help tune a carb. If anyone has constructive criticism or advice I would greatly appreciate hearing from you! Otherwise this is a thread that I plan to keep up to date until I get this thing running right, hopefully sooner than later, we shall see.
I’ll also post some more pics in the coming days.
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1980 kz550c Ltd TK22 pod filter project 22 May 2018 06:00 #783830

  • JMKZHI
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KZRider loudhvx has a motorcycle stuff page with a ton of info about the KZ550 & TK22 carburetors, including jetting for the individual pod filters. See links in his signature below any of his replies. Be sure to note the info about the choke flaps which can be problematic on those carbs.

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1980 kz550c Ltd TK22 pod filter project 22 May 2018 06:28 #783832

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One of the reasons that a big plenum (air filter box) works so well is that it eliminates most of the turbulence, providing lots of calm air for the carbs. My concern about those restrictors is the high degree of turbulence they are bound to create. This can give the carbs very inconsistent signals, resulting in unpredictable changes in the fuel mixture.
I have seen some folks try to restrict airflow by adding a layer of filter foam to the outside of each pod. One of the problems with this approach is that any restrictors is going to be more effective at wide open throttle, high rpm situations that at low to moderate demand. They sacrifice top end power to try to regain what they have lost in the middle.
I hope you find a happy spot.
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough

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Last edit: by TexasKZ.

1980 kz550c Ltd TK22 pod filter project 22 May 2018 07:18 #783833

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1980 kz750E1, Delkevic exhaust
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1980 kz550c Ltd TK22 pod filter project 22 May 2018 07:49 #783834

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The Emgo and similar pods don't block the intake ports on the Tk22 carbs.

Why bother with restricting the carbs? Just rejet and then you will have full advantage of the pods (which is really only an advantage near the top end of the RPM range).

To add to what TexasKz said...
Airboxes may give better throttle response at lower revs, but they don't do it by restricting air. They may restrict total airflow a tiny bit, but that is not what gives the better throttle response. Air moves in pulses and has momentum so confined spaces affect the air movement. The airbox enhances this if it is designed/tuned properly. You lose that with the pods, and you cannot get it back with a simple restrictor. All you're doing is simulating driving around with the choke partially on. Since you have a manual choke, you could just do that instead of making plastic choke plates, but really you just need to rejet.

The details of the jetting will depend on your particular exhaust setup.

Precise jetting of the Tk22's is about needle position as much as changing actual jets. Clip position alone is usually too drastic of a change and you will often need to use shim washers to adjust the needle. The slide also requires a shim wire to properly space the slide so the needle doesn't bind, or have vertical play.

s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/TK22mainPage/TK2...shimmingNeedles.html

s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/TK22mainPage/TK2.../TK22needleSwap.html

Luckily the TK22's are very simple and respond well to changes made (assuming all other engine mechanics are in good working order).

Until recently, pilot jets were not available in bigger sizes. So jetting for pods was a compromise of using overly big mains and different needles ($$$) to compensate, or drilling the pilots to the correct size. I preferred the latter and found it gave overall better results than the compromises. But now they are available so you can get them if necessary. Mains of different types are available as well.

s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/TK22mainPage/TK2...22jetsAndDrills.html

Sometimes, if the exhaust is relatively mild, you can even get away with all stock jets and just adjust the factory needle with a shim.

Be aware, some rebuild kits have been found to have defective needles and jets. Make sure to use good quality, non-counterfeit parts. In fact, you will likely be best off using the factory needle as it may only need a shim, and thus needles with more clip positions won't help you.

s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/TK22mainPage/TK2...TK22rebuildKits.html

s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/TK22mainPage/TK2...K22threeNeedles.html
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Last edit: by loudhvx.

1980 kz550c Ltd TK22 pod filter project 22 May 2018 08:01 #783835

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Since you're fiddling with the carbs, you may want to do this mod to help adjust startup conditions...
s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/TK22mainPage/TK2...astIdleScrewMod.html

And as JMKZHI said, you should carefully inspect the choke flaps if you haven't already. .. especially the hinge curls.
s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/TK22mainPage/TK2...chokePlateFlaps.html

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1980 kz550c Ltd TK22 pod filter project 23 May 2018 04:14 #783862

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What is a good base setting for pod filters, and aftermarket 4-1 with these carbs, with everything else remaining stock on a KZ/GPz550? I know altitude will make a difference, but I have not read anywhere of TK22 settings of what has worked for others with pod filters.
'85 GPz550(ZX550-A2)

GPz550 Base Manual --> tinyurl.com/ze5b3qo
GPz550 Supplement Manual --> tinyurl.com/h34d2o6
GPz550.com --> www.nwsca.com/scripts/gpz_forum_2005/default.asp
First Race Win GPz550 --> tinyurl.com/o5y3ftp

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1980 kz550c Ltd TK22 pod filter project 23 May 2018 07:10 #783871

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CoreyClough wrote: What is a good base setting for pod filters, and aftermarket 4-1 with these carbs, with everything else remaining stock on a KZ/GPz550? I know altitude will make a difference, but I have not read anywhere of TK22 settings of what has worked for others with pod filters.

There is a wide range of settings that work. Many use the settings based on the Dynojet kit, but that comes with different needles and uses stock pilots. The stock needles are two-taper. The Dynojet are one-taper, so the intermediate range is very different with the two different needle types. With the stock needle you don't need too much change to go to pods. Sometimes half a step is enough. The down side is that the fuel economy will be down a bit since it will be slightly richer in the cruising range. With Dynojet needles, you can really lean out the cruising range and still get smooth running, and still have best power up top.

So if I had a totally stock engine and carbs, with a slightly more open exhaust, and I was using stock jets and needles, I would probably start with the needle shimmed a half mm, 34 pilots, and probably the main two sizes up. The exhausts can vary a lot, though, so I would expect to be doing more jetting to get it right.

If I had the dynojet kit, I would probably start with needle at the 3rd clip, stock pilot, and the 98 Dynojet main. (That is their recommended base setting as well.) But I've found it always needs tweaking to get exactly right as well.

At one point I was shimming in .1mm increments (with jet changes accordingly). That's really what it took to get exactly where I wanted it on the wideband, but that's more academic than practical.

One warning I should give is that people are often fooled by their wide-open-throttle position into thinking they are rich enough. What they fail to realize is that the throttle stop position is often set so the slide can open beyond the maximum open position. So when they lift the slide all the way, for the last mm or so they are adding fuel only, but no more air. This means the WOT position is much richer than the slightly off WOT position. So if you hold WOT for awhile, get up to speed, then start to very slowly roll off the throttle, you might get this strange sensation of actually going faster. That is because as you roll off the throttle you go from too rich to the best mix, while still running at the carbs maximum capacity.

The solution is to set the throttle stop position so the slide is just at 100% open when it stops, or even a few % less than full open until all final jetting is set. Be aware that shimming the needle affects the slide's final position at WOT, so the stop needs to be checked anytime a needle change is done.
There are photos here of the throttle stop and how the slide should be flush at WOT.
s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/TK22mainPage/TK2...stmentsAndMaint.html

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Last edit: by loudhvx.

1980 kz550c Ltd TK22 pod filter project 28 May 2018 04:13 #784214

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Greta info Lou. I hope this helps a lot of people in the future. Your site has been a great place for information all of these years, and I am sure you will continue to keep adding to it.
'85 GPz550(ZX550-A2)

GPz550 Base Manual --> tinyurl.com/ze5b3qo
GPz550 Supplement Manual --> tinyurl.com/h34d2o6
GPz550.com --> www.nwsca.com/scripts/gpz_forum_2005/default.asp
First Race Win GPz550 --> tinyurl.com/o5y3ftp
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