'78 KZ1000 too rich...
- mic78
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'78 KZ1000 too rich...
23 May 2012 18:40
’78 KZ 1000, ~45k miles, plugs are new, electronic ignition (don’t know which one but timing & advance function/are set properly) valve lash seems normal w/o actually checking them (sound), compression is even on all 4 @ 100 psi, had the bike about a year and a half now and ridden ~1,000 to 1,500 miles. Has stock airbox, air filter (maybe K&N style) and carbs. Has a header w/Mac muffler. P/O has been through the carbs during the 18 years he owned the bike, always kept the tank full to prevent rust and what I can see of the tank is clean. Typically starts quick with very little choke time needed, like maybe a minute, and idles steady @ 1100 once fully warmed up.
Bike has always run on the rich side of what seems average for these bikes. Recently seemed to run but not right and would “wake up” 1/3 to 1/2 throttle and would sound like all cylinders were finally firing. Replaced the plugs and no different. Let it sit for a week or two and took it to a friend’s (it went back to pulling/”waking up” again on the way to his place) and verified all the voltages were steady/average for each plug wire.
I don’t know which jets it has, what size they are compared to stock, and what the needle settings are.
Pulled the carbs & bowls and didn’t see much grunge, pulled the floats & blew out & cleaned everything in the bowl area, set float levels by sight which seemed a bit off, re-set the slider (not the right word) depths to .07 (can’t remember if it is .7 or .07) on the head/engine side, and set the pilot screws to two turns out.
Put it back together and adjusted all the pilot screws to 1 turn out after having it run for a bit. It now runs better, without a test ride, and seems to be running on all cylinders but is really running/idling rich. Like an old VW Rabbit diesel kind of exhaust - rich. The only pilot screw that makes a noticeable difference in how it idles (when turning it in, and then back out) is carb 1. The rest don’t seem to change how it runs, or not nearly as much as carb 1.
I replaced the bowl drain plugs with a clear hose to check float levels like the factory service manual (FSM) says and they all showed the fuel level to be just shy of the bowl gasket. (normal per FSM) I was kind of hoping to find one or two of these higher than it should be to explain why it’s running so much more rich now.
I have enough extra fuel line so I can pull the tank and try setting the slider depth with a borrowed home made (clear tube) vacuum/balancer setup while running, but I haven’t tried it yet. The FSM said more about balancing the carbs based on vacuum this way than adjusting the pilot screws.
One question I have is whether checking the floats this way is accurate. Because based on what I saw it seemed like the bowls were basically all the way full, and how am I to know whether they are too full and contributing to a really rich idle? The book/info I have doesn’t give a specific measurement for setting the float levels like I’ve seen with other carbs.
What else can I do? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, I’m anxious to get out and ride more because I have new tires ready to go on once this is sorted out.
Bike has always run on the rich side of what seems average for these bikes. Recently seemed to run but not right and would “wake up” 1/3 to 1/2 throttle and would sound like all cylinders were finally firing. Replaced the plugs and no different. Let it sit for a week or two and took it to a friend’s (it went back to pulling/”waking up” again on the way to his place) and verified all the voltages were steady/average for each plug wire.
I don’t know which jets it has, what size they are compared to stock, and what the needle settings are.
Pulled the carbs & bowls and didn’t see much grunge, pulled the floats & blew out & cleaned everything in the bowl area, set float levels by sight which seemed a bit off, re-set the slider (not the right word) depths to .07 (can’t remember if it is .7 or .07) on the head/engine side, and set the pilot screws to two turns out.
Put it back together and adjusted all the pilot screws to 1 turn out after having it run for a bit. It now runs better, without a test ride, and seems to be running on all cylinders but is really running/idling rich. Like an old VW Rabbit diesel kind of exhaust - rich. The only pilot screw that makes a noticeable difference in how it idles (when turning it in, and then back out) is carb 1. The rest don’t seem to change how it runs, or not nearly as much as carb 1.
I replaced the bowl drain plugs with a clear hose to check float levels like the factory service manual (FSM) says and they all showed the fuel level to be just shy of the bowl gasket. (normal per FSM) I was kind of hoping to find one or two of these higher than it should be to explain why it’s running so much more rich now.
I have enough extra fuel line so I can pull the tank and try setting the slider depth with a borrowed home made (clear tube) vacuum/balancer setup while running, but I haven’t tried it yet. The FSM said more about balancing the carbs based on vacuum this way than adjusting the pilot screws.
One question I have is whether checking the floats this way is accurate. Because based on what I saw it seemed like the bowls were basically all the way full, and how am I to know whether they are too full and contributing to a really rich idle? The book/info I have doesn’t give a specific measurement for setting the float levels like I’ve seen with other carbs.
What else can I do? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, I’m anxious to get out and ride more because I have new tires ready to go on once this is sorted out.
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- 4TheKZ1000
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Re: '78 KZ1000 too rich...
23 May 2012 20:48
this might sound silly, but you should ck electrical also. ck the coils for proper voltage. I have seen a sutty plug more than once due to a weak spark.
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- MFolks
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Re: '78 KZ1000 too rich...
23 May 2012 21:12
Testing Kawasaki Ignition Coils For Input Voltage
When voltage testing Kawasaki Ignition Coils, the following needs to be done:
1. Remove the fuel/gas tank to access the coils.
2. Fully charge the battery.
3. Using a multimeter, set it up for VDC(Volts, Direct Current), range of 20.
4. Turn on the ignition switch and the run/stop switch to “Run”.
5. Put the multimeter’s RED probe on where the red or red/yellow wire goes on the ignition coil.
6. Put the multimeter’s BLACK probe on either the battery Negative(-) post/terminal or a good frame ground.
7. You should be able to see battery voltage at the ignition coil connection, but this depends on the current draw of other items in the same circuit.
8. If the tested voltage is down to 8-9 volts, you probably need to clean the many and various electrical connectors.
9. To check the spark output at the sparkplugs, use these:
Ignition Spark Testers
www.lislecorp.com/divisions/products/?pr...ivision=1&category=8
www.lislecorp.com/divisions/products/?pr...ivision=1&category=8 Instead of grounding the sparkplug with the sparkplug wire attached, looking for a spark. This method puts the IC Igniter and ignition coils at risk of failure due to high currents, and possible internal shorting.
Cleaning Motorcycle Electrics
1. Get some of the De-Oxit electrical contact cleaner and figure on spending a good day going from the front of the bike to the back. It’s a plastic safe cleaner/preservative. www.deoxit.com is their website. Or use any plastic safe electrical contact cleaner(NOT WD-40 !).
2. On the older Kawasaki's, a majority of electrical connectors are inside the headlight housing requiring removal of the headlight, then the fun begins.
3. Do one set of electrical connectors at a time to avoid mixing up what connects to where. Usually disconnecting, spraying with De-Oxit and reconnecting is about all you'll need.
4. However, when encountering the green crud of corrosion, a brass wire brush may be needed on the pins you can reach. Some 400-600 grit wet and dry sandpaper strips rolled into a tube should reach the male and female pins in the more difficult to clean connectors.
5. Smoker’s pipe cleaners, cotton swabs and wooden toothpicks work as cleaning aids.
6. Really small electrical connectors may require the use of a welders tip cleaning tool assortment.
7. Most pins in the connectors are coated with a thin plating of tin, and others may be nothing more than copper or brass.
8. If moisture is added, the resulting corrosion lowers the voltage/current being carried causing dim lights, slow engine cranking, slow turn signal responce and lower input voltage to the ignition coils resulting in weak spark.
9. The left and right handlebar switch pods will need attention too as they have circuit functions like turn, horn, run/stop, and start. The older Kawasaki’s have reports of the soldered connections crumbling, if your bike has this problem, just ask, as I’ve got a repair procedure for this.
10. Usually a spritz or two with actuation of the switch is about all needed for these switches unless corrosion is detected and then careful disassembly is required.
11. The ignition switch may or may be not sealed to allow spraying the internal contacts. I urge caution if attempting to open this up as springs, and ball bearings may fly out never to be seen again!
12. If your bike has the older style glass tubed fuses, I suggest replacing them as vibration can cause internal failure. AGX is the type used, and most auto parts stores can get them for you.
13. Clean the fuse holder clips, looking for signs of overheating(discolored insulation, signs of melting). I use metal polish on a cotton swab, followed by spraying another clean swab with the De-Oxit and then rubbing the inside of the fuse clip.
14. All battery cables must be clean and tight for maximum current transfer. Check the cables going from the Negative(-) battery terminal/post to the engine mounting bolt
15. Also the one going from the Positive(+) terminal to the starter solenoid and from there to the starter motor.
16. If any battery cable feels ”Crunchy” when flexed, replace it as possible corrosion is inside the insulation.
17. Each "Bullet Connector" will have to be sprayed to ensure good connectivity, especially the ones going to the energizing coil of the starter solenoid.
18. The alternator output “Bullet Connectors” are usually behind the engine sprocket cover and will need inspecting and cleaning too.
20. The turn signal light sockets will benefit from a spritz from the contact cleaner along with the tail light/brake light socket.
21. Some brake light switches can be sprayed on the actuating rod, with the spray running down inside to the electrical contacts, others may be sealed requiring replacement if the switch is intermittent in operation.
22. Some people put the Di-Electric Grease on cleaned terminations/connectors, I don’t, as I’ve read/heard it can cause problems when it gets hot, actually insulating the connections, so the choice is yours to use or not.
I think I've covered about all of the electrical systems on the bike.........
“I spent a weekend going through every electrical connection and switch on the bike with a little scotchbrite pad and DeOxit - what a difference! Everything was brighter, gauge backlights, indicator lights, turn signals, I was getting a nicer spark, it fired up quicker, etc. Well worth my time. WELL worth it! “
From a forum member at www.kzrider.com
When voltage testing Kawasaki Ignition Coils, the following needs to be done:
1. Remove the fuel/gas tank to access the coils.
2. Fully charge the battery.
3. Using a multimeter, set it up for VDC(Volts, Direct Current), range of 20.
4. Turn on the ignition switch and the run/stop switch to “Run”.
5. Put the multimeter’s RED probe on where the red or red/yellow wire goes on the ignition coil.
6. Put the multimeter’s BLACK probe on either the battery Negative(-) post/terminal or a good frame ground.
7. You should be able to see battery voltage at the ignition coil connection, but this depends on the current draw of other items in the same circuit.
8. If the tested voltage is down to 8-9 volts, you probably need to clean the many and various electrical connectors.
9. To check the spark output at the sparkplugs, use these:
Ignition Spark Testers
www.lislecorp.com/divisions/products/?pr...ivision=1&category=8
www.lislecorp.com/divisions/products/?pr...ivision=1&category=8 Instead of grounding the sparkplug with the sparkplug wire attached, looking for a spark. This method puts the IC Igniter and ignition coils at risk of failure due to high currents, and possible internal shorting.
Cleaning Motorcycle Electrics
1. Get some of the De-Oxit electrical contact cleaner and figure on spending a good day going from the front of the bike to the back. It’s a plastic safe cleaner/preservative. www.deoxit.com is their website. Or use any plastic safe electrical contact cleaner(NOT WD-40 !).
2. On the older Kawasaki's, a majority of electrical connectors are inside the headlight housing requiring removal of the headlight, then the fun begins.
3. Do one set of electrical connectors at a time to avoid mixing up what connects to where. Usually disconnecting, spraying with De-Oxit and reconnecting is about all you'll need.
4. However, when encountering the green crud of corrosion, a brass wire brush may be needed on the pins you can reach. Some 400-600 grit wet and dry sandpaper strips rolled into a tube should reach the male and female pins in the more difficult to clean connectors.
5. Smoker’s pipe cleaners, cotton swabs and wooden toothpicks work as cleaning aids.
6. Really small electrical connectors may require the use of a welders tip cleaning tool assortment.
7. Most pins in the connectors are coated with a thin plating of tin, and others may be nothing more than copper or brass.
8. If moisture is added, the resulting corrosion lowers the voltage/current being carried causing dim lights, slow engine cranking, slow turn signal responce and lower input voltage to the ignition coils resulting in weak spark.
9. The left and right handlebar switch pods will need attention too as they have circuit functions like turn, horn, run/stop, and start. The older Kawasaki’s have reports of the soldered connections crumbling, if your bike has this problem, just ask, as I’ve got a repair procedure for this.
10. Usually a spritz or two with actuation of the switch is about all needed for these switches unless corrosion is detected and then careful disassembly is required.
11. The ignition switch may or may be not sealed to allow spraying the internal contacts. I urge caution if attempting to open this up as springs, and ball bearings may fly out never to be seen again!
12. If your bike has the older style glass tubed fuses, I suggest replacing them as vibration can cause internal failure. AGX is the type used, and most auto parts stores can get them for you.
13. Clean the fuse holder clips, looking for signs of overheating(discolored insulation, signs of melting). I use metal polish on a cotton swab, followed by spraying another clean swab with the De-Oxit and then rubbing the inside of the fuse clip.
14. All battery cables must be clean and tight for maximum current transfer. Check the cables going from the Negative(-) battery terminal/post to the engine mounting bolt
15. Also the one going from the Positive(+) terminal to the starter solenoid and from there to the starter motor.
16. If any battery cable feels ”Crunchy” when flexed, replace it as possible corrosion is inside the insulation.
17. Each "Bullet Connector" will have to be sprayed to ensure good connectivity, especially the ones going to the energizing coil of the starter solenoid.
18. The alternator output “Bullet Connectors” are usually behind the engine sprocket cover and will need inspecting and cleaning too.
20. The turn signal light sockets will benefit from a spritz from the contact cleaner along with the tail light/brake light socket.
21. Some brake light switches can be sprayed on the actuating rod, with the spray running down inside to the electrical contacts, others may be sealed requiring replacement if the switch is intermittent in operation.
22. Some people put the Di-Electric Grease on cleaned terminations/connectors, I don’t, as I’ve read/heard it can cause problems when it gets hot, actually insulating the connections, so the choice is yours to use or not.
I think I've covered about all of the electrical systems on the bike.........
“I spent a weekend going through every electrical connection and switch on the bike with a little scotchbrite pad and DeOxit - what a difference! Everything was brighter, gauge backlights, indicator lights, turn signals, I was getting a nicer spark, it fired up quicker, etc. Well worth my time. WELL worth it! “
From a forum member at www.kzrider.com
1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)
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- mic78
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Re: '78 KZ1000 too rich...
24 May 2012 14:24
Thanks for the reminder/good idea to double check everything electrical. Checking the electrical has briefly crossed my mind....
I think I'll get the in-line spark tester.
In the meantime, is it the pilot screws and/or float level that determine how rich/lean the idle & <1/4 throttle operation is?
FWIW, I forgot to mention the bowl vent tubes are not leaking any fuel. I don't have the hoses on them right now....
Thanks for your fast responses.
I think I'll get the in-line spark tester.
In the meantime, is it the pilot screws and/or float level that determine how rich/lean the idle & <1/4 throttle operation is?
FWIW, I forgot to mention the bowl vent tubes are not leaking any fuel. I don't have the hoses on them right now....
Thanks for your fast responses.
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- TexasKZ
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Re: '78 KZ1000 too rich...
24 May 2012 17:54mic78 wrote: In the meantime, is it the pilot screws and/or float level that determine how rich/lean the idle & <1/4 throttle operation is?
Both. To insure proper fuel level in the carbs (float height is irrelevant), use the clear tube method. There are great tutorials in the filebase on this site and if you put the words clear tube method in the search box, you'll pull up a ton of reading material.
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough
www.kzrider.com/11-projects/620336-anoth...uild-thread?start=24
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough
www.kzrider.com/11-projects/620336-anoth...uild-thread?start=24
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- mic78
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Re: '78 KZ1000 too rich...
12 Jun 2012 00:52
Update:
Made my own "clear tube" for checking float levels, checked them on the bike and they are all right where they should be.
I have a carb synch tool on it's way, and a vc gasket for checking the valves. (also have a tach cable-to-engine seal/o-ring ordered for that leak).
Last compression test a year ago (maybe 2k) or so showed 100 psi on all 4, I haven't checked the book to see if that's too low, but will do another test soon.
In the meantime I verified the resistance of the power wires for the coil are very close to 4.0 on both coils. (good)
For 1/4 it shows ~25k, the book says it should be about 23. For 2/3 it's completely open. Wiggled the wires a BUNCH, took the hottest hairdryer I could find to the 2/3 coil for 10-15 minutes, nothing.
How could it run, albeit rich, and sound like it was running on all 4, if what I'm seeing is saying the 2/3 coil is inop (open)? All the plugs were pretty even as far as how black/rich they read.
My best guess is to find another coil, right?
I should have ordered that spark tester a long time ago, I'll get one coming.
Made my own "clear tube" for checking float levels, checked them on the bike and they are all right where they should be.
I have a carb synch tool on it's way, and a vc gasket for checking the valves. (also have a tach cable-to-engine seal/o-ring ordered for that leak).
Last compression test a year ago (maybe 2k) or so showed 100 psi on all 4, I haven't checked the book to see if that's too low, but will do another test soon.
In the meantime I verified the resistance of the power wires for the coil are very close to 4.0 on both coils. (good)
For 1/4 it shows ~25k, the book says it should be about 23. For 2/3 it's completely open. Wiggled the wires a BUNCH, took the hottest hairdryer I could find to the 2/3 coil for 10-15 minutes, nothing.
How could it run, albeit rich, and sound like it was running on all 4, if what I'm seeing is saying the 2/3 coil is inop (open)? All the plugs were pretty even as far as how black/rich they read.
My best guess is to find another coil, right?
I should have ordered that spark tester a long time ago, I'll get one coming.
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