TOPIC:

Hi everyone,

I have a KZ 550, and it's been running fine for the few months i've had it.

I had it out riding today, and it started making a rattling noise. I stopped, and when I restarted it, the starter couldn't turn over the engine, seemed like the battery was low, but the lights were full brightness. On the third try it turned over and started up fine. but the rattle was still there. about 5 minutes later it stalled on me, and will not restart. Same thing, the starter seems to half turn over the engine, but can not get it to fully turn over. I tried roll starting it, and even in 6th gear it will not turn over once, the rear tire locks up and will slide on the pavement. I'm assuming it shouldn't have that kind of compression in 6th. What can I check to see if the engine is seized? The oil level is fine and it was running fine before.

Could the starter somehow be jammed and is itself locking the engine?

Thanks,

Graham

Post edited by: Gr_Lantern, at: 2006/07/16 21:01

Graham,

Check the chain between the starter and the cam.

Starter pulls easy, but carefully remove the sidecover
for the chain, and get replacement bolts, originals are prone to snap off. You may need a new gasket in there too.

Good Luck!

Thanks Twist,

I will take the starter off tonight and have a look at that. I also read in my manual that I should inspect the starter clutch (they say it should turn freely in one direction, and not at all in the other)

I am only guessing that it is the starter that is jamming the engine. I suppose it could be any number of things. I know the Cam chain has been making a rattle for a little while, I was going to replace the Cam Chain Tensioner. is it possible that the chain rattled itself loose and ground the works to a halt?

So much for summer riding...


Hopefully it's something that can be fixed without too much work.

Another thing that may be helpful in diagnosing the problem. My bike was leaking oil out of the seal where the Tach enters the engine. I replaced the oil seal and O-Ring. and as soon as I rode it after that it was making a bit of a rattling noise (that I mentioned in my first post) I figured I had done something wrong and that the tach cable was rattling because it was loose or something. When the bike seized I first thought it was a problem with the tach spline (as I had just been monkeying with it) but it came out smoothly and looked fine, and even with it out the bike wouldn't turn over. So it may just be a coincidence that this happened right after I replaced the seals.

I can't offer any help, just my condolences. Good luck, I hope it turns out to be something simple/cheap/easy to fix.

Something else that may help narrow down the problem,

A few days before this happened, I had my valve seals replaced at the local Kawasaki Dealer. Is it possible that something they did to the valves could have been responsible for it now not turning over?

Any help would be terrific.

Where should I look first?

Thanks,

Graham

OhOh! I think it's time to pop a top, then pop THE top and have a look see!

Couldn't be as easy as one of those big ole spiders got sucked in....naw...that'd be too easy!

New valve seals...new problem......just thinking mind you.......

Most places around here wouldn't even look at your bike. They say anything over 7 years old is a shop liability. Sometimes the shop themselves are the liability.

Pull the plugs and look in you might see something....but hope you don't ...you know...????

Ambergrismooon,
Took your advice, pulled the plugs and took a look down the cylinders. Cylinder 2 had the exhaust valve open, and the piston is on the down stroke (when I hit the starter you can see it try to move down about a half inch then it returns to its position.

The exhaust valve should never be open when a piston is on the down stroke as far as I know. This leads me to the conclusion that the cam (timing) chain has jumped and is my problem.

The fact that I just got the bike back from the shop, and they replaced the valve seals makes me very concerned. They would have had to re-time the cam chain, and I think it's more than a coincidence that the second ride since getting it back the timing chain jumps... I think I'll call up the dealership and see if they won't take some of the blame...

P.S. it also took them 2 months to replace the valve seals.. so god only knows what they were doing

Well, the exhaust valve normally opens before the piston gets to the bottom of it's stroke, so it depends on how far down in the cylinder the piston is, and how far open the exhaust valve is. If the piston is almost to the bottom, and the exhaust valve is still opening, then that's normal, if the piston is almost at the bottom and the cam lobe is pointing directly at the center of the cam bucket, then you have a problem.

Look in #1 and #4, because that's where the problem is.

Hey Steell,

The piston was pretty high up and on the way down, and the valve was mostly opened. This would mean that the cylinder would be sucking from the exhaust valve.

That was in #1

#4 as I recall seemed ok, the piston was down, and no valves were opened.

My task today is to call the dealership that just replaced the valve seals, and see if I can get them to accept some responsibility for the cam chain jumping (not resetting the tensioner correctly?) with a bike this old i'm guessing i'm facing an uphill battle getting the dealer to admit to anything but engine wear as the culprit.

Somethings not right here, if #1 is close to the top then #4 should be as well, #1 and #4 rise and fall together as do #2 and #3.
Cylinders are numbered 1-4 with #1 being the left cylinder when sitting on the bike, followed by 2,3,4.

It's probably going to be real tough to get the shop to admit they made a mistake (if they did), and even tougher to prove that they did (if they actually did).

I'm reasonably certain that bike has an automatic cam chain tensioner, no manual adjustment possible.

I'd say you are going to have to pull the head or pay someone else to do so, in order to determine what actually happened.

Post edited by: steell, at: 2006/07/19 12:53

Ya,

The Cam chain tensioner is automatic, there is no manual adjustment required. although they may have had to remove it and re-install it to make some adjustments to the valve timing. maybe it was not put back correctly.. I will be calling them today, but I am sure you are right, I will have to do it myself, or get my mechanic friend to help me.

I will have to re-examine cylinder 4. I know that there were no valves open in it, but I will have to re-confirm it's position, It may have been in a similar location to 1.

Thanks for the help

Whenever work happens on the valves or cams, the cam chain tensioner needs to be removed or partially dissassembled in order to put the valve cover back on. This is because the valve cover pushes down on the cam chain as part of the chain's guide system.

If the shop put the cam cover back on after the tensioner was fully assembled, the cover pushed down on the cam chain making it way too tight. When this happens, bad things can happen. The chain can stretch or break, the tensioner can break, and the chain guides can break. If a chain guide breaks, there will be a rattle and the chain could theoretically be slack enough to have jumped out of timing.

Look for a broken chain guide.

Also, have you actually cheked the cam timing?