Compression significantly different between throttle open and closed…why?

  • gd4now
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Re: Compression significantly different between throttle open and closed…why?

17 Jun 2022 10:41
#868988
I would first attempt the compression test in the same way you did and see if you get the same results. Second I have another question,  is the F1 a US market bike with a vacuum petcock? If yes then I would check the petcock for a leak in the diaphragm as have read where this can lead to a leak into the #2 carb via the vacuum hose/port into the carb and cylinder creating a flooding so to speak into that cylinder which will keep it from firing correctly. 
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  • jekyllman
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Re: Compression significantly different between throttle open and closed…why?

17 Jun 2022 10:59
#868990
Thanks everyone for the insights. I’ll try the wet compression test and see if that changed much. 

@gd4now I do have the vacuum petcock, although I bought a cheap aftermarket one recently. I will admit that I have to run it on prime or else it doesn’t get enough fuel for the 3 working cylinders…
1980 KZ650F1 - 10k miles (see photo)
1981 KZ305 CSR - 10k miles (didn't have the heart to customize this one, will stay original)

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  • ckahleer
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Re: Compression significantly different between throttle open and closed…why?

17 Jun 2022 22:24
#869004
......or/and maybe the synchronization is not great, and the butterfly of #2 is almost closed...with not throttle, related to the others.
I'm thinking the same thing, 
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  • Warren3200gt
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Re: Compression significantly different between throttle open and closed…why?

18 Jun 2022 04:58 - 18 Jun 2022 04:59
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"Compression significanty different between throttle open and closed…why?" 
Same reason it's harder to breathe through a straw than it is through a drainpipe. 

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Last edit: 18 Jun 2022 04:59 by Warren3200gt.
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  • TexasKZ
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Re: Compression significantly different between throttle open and closed…why?

18 Jun 2022 06:41
#869010
Thanks everyone for the insights. I’ll try the wet compression test and see if that changed much. 

@gd4now I do have the vacuum petcock, although I bought a cheap aftermarket one recently. I will admit that I have to run it on prime or else it doesn’t get enough fuel for the 3 working cylinders…
Is the vacuum line from the petcock connected to the problem cylinder? Perhaps the diaphragm in the petcock is leaking badly.
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  • jekyllman
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Re: Compression significantly different between throttle open and closed…why?

18 Jun 2022 23:51
#869033
Ok so I was about to do the wet test but I ended up with the following numbers, cold, throttle closed:

1: 135
2: 145
3: 140
4: 155

…so I figured things are good? 

I then thought that maybe I should double check carb vacuum balance. Vacuum was too low (~10cmHg) so I adjusted everything up to in spec. 

Still no fire in cylinder #2 and that’s while using an aux gas supply and the vacuum petcock port capped

I can’t figure this thing out
1980 KZ650F1 - 10k miles (see photo)
1981 KZ305 CSR - 10k miles (didn't have the heart to customize this one, will stay original)

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  • hardrockminer
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Re: Compression significantly different between throttle open and closed…why?

19 Jun 2022 04:57
#869040
You need three things for combustion....compression, spark and fuel.  If compression is OK, and I would use the standard test with the throttle open, then check for spark.  If you have spark then the problem is fuel.  
I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.

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Re: Compression significantly different between throttle open and closed…why?

19 Jun 2022 09:26
#869052
I have always heard that just because a plug sparks outside an engine. does not mean it is sparking inside, under compression.
What is the best way to tell if a plug is firing?
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  • Wookie58
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Re: Compression significantly different between throttle open and closed…why?

19 Jun 2022 09:29
#869053
I have always heard that just because a plug sparks outside an engine. does not mean it is sparking inside, under compression.
What is the best way to tell if a plug is firing?
Swop it with a good cylinder and see if the problem moves with it 

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  • jekyllman
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Re: Compression significantly different between throttle open and closed…why?

19 Jun 2022 10:06
#869056
^this I would like to know. I just switched out the ignition coil (and wires and caps) on that side hoping to resolve something. I have a hunch there still might be issues with the points/condensers 
1980 KZ650F1 - 10k miles (see photo)
1981 KZ305 CSR - 10k miles (didn't have the heart to customize this one, will stay original)

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  • TexasKZ
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Re: Compression significantly different between throttle open and closed…why?

19 Jun 2022 12:12
#869061
^this I would like to know. I just switched out the ignition coil (and wires and caps) on that side hoping to resolve something. I have a hunch there still might be issues with the points/condensers 
Are you absolutely sure the high tension leads are connected to the correct cylinders? One coil fires cylinders 1 & 4, while the other fires 2 & 3.
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
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www.kzrider.com/11-projects/620336-anoth...uild-thread?start=24

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Re: Compression significantly different between throttle open and closed…why?

20 Jun 2022 20:26 - 20 Jun 2022 20:27
#869144
Yeah that’s how it’s set up.

update: I’ve got 13.3V at the battery. Voltage at the ignition coil leads are both 11.7. Is that normal? That doesn’t explain why one cylinder isn’t firing but I thought they should be at or near battery voltage

edit: if both ignition coils are unplugged from their leads, they will read the correct voltage. I don’t understand why it would make a difference
1980 KZ650F1 - 10k miles (see photo)
1981 KZ305 CSR - 10k miles (didn't have the heart to customize this one, will stay original)
Last edit: 20 Jun 2022 20:27 by jekyllman.

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