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APE or MEGACYCLE? 14 Sep 2018 05:56 #790841

  • Hardgun
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So Im starting to gather everything for a head swap and cam upgrade Im doing this winter to my 1982 KZ1100 A. I've picked up a 1985 ZN1100 head with the bathtub. Initially I was gonna slap some 84 gpz cams in there just like daveo did. But its easier for me to find aftermarket cams, and they are a tad bit hotter. B) Ive been looking at the APE K410 Cams which spec out like this:
.410" LIFT
266deg. Duration @ .030"
and also a set from megacycle that spec out like this:
.410" LIFT
250deg. Duration @ .040"

both std base circle (1.110) and lobe center at 108 deg.

What do you guys think? They seem roughly the same. anyone have any experience with these two? Any Input or advise is welcome!

P.S. with the same lift on both of them megacycle says that stock pistons and valve springs are fine, yet ape claims you need new springs and pistons. Anyone know why that might be? APE just trying to get some more money out of me? I cant find anywhere what the lift is rated at on the stock springs.
1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe

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APE or MEGACYCLE? 14 Sep 2018 06:38 #790844

  • KZB2 650
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I replaced my tired springs with Ape's when I had him do my head even though it was a little over kill for the slightly hotter 750 cam I went with...... figured it might keep it from floating when I'm pushing the red line and I might go with a little hotter set of cams someday anyway ....... as far as the lift being a little much for the stock pistons we'll let others that know school you on that. ;)
1978 KZ650 b-2
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket.

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APE or MEGACYCLE? 14 Sep 2018 07:04 #790847

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Well I understand why it may be necessary. Daveo flycut his stock ones to be safe to work with a gpz cam swap.. When I get to that point Im going to clay the pistons and check clearance on everything and fly cut the valve pockets a tiny bit if need be. Or maybe Ill go all in and swap pistons, just depends. I was just curious if anyone had a quick answer as to why with the same lift one manufacturer would require piston modification and one wouldn't.
1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe

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APE or MEGACYCLE? 14 Sep 2018 07:28 #790849

  • Nessism
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The Megacycle catalog I found says the 470-15 .410 lift cams need new springs and modified pistons. Seems similar as APE. The APE cams have more duration too so that brings in more possible valve to piston contact.
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Last edit: by Nessism.

APE or MEGACYCLE? 14 Sep 2018 08:03 #790850

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You sir are correct on that aspect. I was actually looking at the other listing on page 47 for the gpz1100/ 1000 j. I checked part numbers and my 82 1100 a has the same piston as an 82 gpz1100 so i figured thats what i should be looking at. same bore and stroke and everything just one is chain and one is shafty. am I wrong in thinking this?
1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe

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APE or MEGACYCLE? 14 Sep 2018 08:15 #790851

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Plus I'm switching to the same bathtub head as the 83/84 gpz so i figured that would be a more accurate reference.
1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe

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APE or MEGACYCLE? 14 Sep 2018 17:10 #790880

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as for cams either ok for me i like Megacycles better than any but all are fine that being said matching new springs are a must , as for bath tub head on 82 style engine best to match with 83/84 GPZ1100 head as you will loose compression.
1984 750 Turbo

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APE or MEGACYCLE? 14 Sep 2018 18:33 #790883

  • daveo
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Something to consider with the stock ZN1100 head is the shim-on-top buckets and springs. There may be cam-lift limitations if you are planning to use them, as well as lobe clearance in the cam towers. I stayed with the stock buckets and springs which are working very well with the ZX cams, and the lash adjustments are a breeze. ;)

I chose to keep it simple :kiss:, and am very glad that I did.

:)
1982 KZ1100-A2

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Last edit: by daveo.

APE or MEGACYCLE? 14 Sep 2018 22:55 #790889

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daveo wrote: Something to consider with the stock ZN1100 head is the shim-on-top buckets and springs. There may be cam-lift limitations if you are planning to use them, as well as lobe clearance in the cam towers. I stayed with the stock buckets and springs which are working very well with the ZX cams, and the lash adjustments are a breeze. ;) I chose to keep it simple :kiss:, and am very glad that I did.:)


I can't imagine having to remove the cams to change a valve shim on any motor. These motors get enough wrenching, stripped threads, broken bolts, etc plus having to re-time the cams during every freaking valve adjustment. Opps still too tight. lets do this AGAIN. lol I can not even fathom using a shim under bucket setup. There HAS to be some advantage to it though.
1981 Kawasaki Kz1000K1
Located in the Saint Louis, Missouri Area.

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APE or MEGACYCLE? 14 Sep 2018 23:42 #790892

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I couldn't believe MegaCycle would have stated that stock pistons and springs would be OK with .410 lift. Glad to see that was clarified.
You need to consider that the overlap in longer duration cams will lower cylinder pressure, so higher compression pistons will restore that. Our .410 work fine with shim on top.. People have run .418 lift with top shims and experienced a clicking sound. Upon close examination, it was the shims lifting up then going back down. Way too risky as far as we are concerned.
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APE or MEGACYCLE? 15 Sep 2018 06:52 #790903

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I have many KZ motors running with 420 lift cams and shim on top W/O issue the key is good / proper set up valve springs and keep eye on valve clearance myself i go right to shim on bottom for safety sake i myself have never had issue with striped threads in these engines.
1984 750 Turbo
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APE or MEGACYCLE? 15 Sep 2018 15:23 #790932

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I think I get it now.. The shims over the buckets >could< come out of place in the event of the valves were to "float" for some reason, or just not follow the cam lobe back down to the base circle properly. Of course, I would ass-u-me, that in the case of valve float on one of these engines that something even more catastrophic may be happening or about to happen at the same time.

As far as not having any threads strip, you are a lucky man, because it seems that I have at least one 6mm insert to install every time I work on this bike. Perhaps I use this my torque wrench way too much. :-)
1981 Kawasaki Kz1000K1
Located in the Saint Louis, Missouri Area.

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Last edit: by old_kaw.
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