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TOPIC: Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing?

Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 11 Jul 2018 20:20 #786834

  • agrestixrock
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Finally found someone with a carburetor sync set that they let me borrow to balance my carbs. I noticed that the vacuum ports on the engine carb boots do not unscrew to put the metal straws that slow the needle bouncing around into the carb boots. So I tried using a little piece of vac line on the threaded side to connect it to the ports which slowed the bouncing down. But I noticed that every gauge was in the "late valve timing or vac leax" on the left side of the set I'm using. I set the carbs to at least all be even as possible but I noticed that the idle at neutral rpm is supposed to be 1000 but if I try to set it there the bike will run like its about to die and sometimes will. But after I made the adjustments the bike ran fine for about a day or 2 then one morning it was really struggling to stay running. It died while I was coasting down the hill I live on then I had to leave the choke half on for about half my 15 min trip to work. And now it will run without choke if I keep it at at least 2 rpm but when I take off unless I baby the clutch it almost dies. It has a super "throaty" sound now and I'm getting a crackle between gears and lots of popping when coming down on rpms. Sorry I'm always posting new topics but I just keep having issues and this is my first bike lol. If anyone can give me ideas of what to look at that would be great thank you as always!
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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 12 Jul 2018 06:29 #786846

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After the engine is warm, I would set the idle to about 1200 rpms. When the motorcycle & tachometer were new, 1000 rpms would be expected, but the bike & tach are now 35+ yrs old. In regards to the valves & timing, two things you should do are the valve clearance check & timing advancer service. You could check the timing with a strobe light.

Valve clearance. Doing the check is fairly straightforward. adjusting the valves is more work but should be doable as many a first timer have done it. I've checked the clearances but haven't had to do the adjustment yet.

Timing advancer. Clean, check & lubricate the timing advancer. Separate the rotor from the advancer body & fill the groove with grease & apply grease to the springs & pivot points. Inspect it, especially the springs, & operate it to make sure the rotor snaps back. Re-install & tighten the advancer bolt to the correct torqe spec. When doing the valves, do not use the advancer bolt to turn the crankshaft.

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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 12 Jul 2018 07:08 #786848

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I have to replace the cam end plugs and got a lot that has the plugs and a new valve cover gasket, would I be able to check it while I have the cover off? Or is there something else I have to do and I will have to get some feeler gauges I know that. I also had to install a Dyna S ignition, would this have any effect on the timing advancer? When I installed the Dyna I got the timing as close as possible but I remember that there was something off just not exactly what it was. Also what type of grease should I use? I work on aircraft and we have I believe Mobil brand general aviation grease would that work?

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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 12 Jul 2018 07:46 #786850

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Yes. kill two or three birds with one stone. :)

I'm not that familiar with the Dyna S, but I believe it comes with a rotor that you fit onto the advancer body in place of the oem stock rotor & you're supposed to lubricate the advancer shaft before installing the rotor.

Use a grease that can withstand the head & not sling off. I use high temperature wheel bearing grease. I guess it's a white grease. Dielectric grease & white lithium grease didn't work. both were too thin & seem to have evaporated or something.

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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 12 Jul 2018 18:32 #786870

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I do believe this is high temp but I'll look as it is decently thick. But however the weirdest thing happened.. I was on my way home from getting feeler gauges and I took off accelerating faster than usual then BOOM the bike kicked back to it's normal power and sounded much better. Still have the excessive crackling and popping but it is much better now. So I took the long way home trying to see if it'd go back to the bogging like before but it did fine the rest of the way. When I got home I set the rpms to about 1.2 like you said and you can defiantly tell something is off the idle didn't sound steady at all. Will look into valve clearance this weekend now that I have feeler gauges. Will the ones I got work? .0015in(.038mm) through .035in(.889mm) 32 blade set

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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 13 Jul 2018 06:03 #786885

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The running issues could be ignition-electrical related. 
Do you have the stock ignition coils & spark plug wires or new Dyna coils & new plug wire set?




....

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Last edit: by martin_csr.

Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 13 Jul 2018 06:14 #786886

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Download this manual. It will save you many headaches and shekels

www.kzrider.com/modules/ServiceManuals/K...l%20KZ650%201981.pdf

The valve clearance business begins on page 2-5.

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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 13 Jul 2018 07:15 #786890

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I'm running stock coils and wires as the Dyna coils are a little out of my price range for a while. And I did download the manual for the h1 with 2 other models as well it has been helpful but sometimes it's just confusing lol. Going to check my valve clearance tonight hopefully. I'm almost positive I don't have any vacuum leaks on the intake carb boots as the gauge set showed all of my carbs had valve timing or vac leaks

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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 13 Jul 2018 08:18 #786892

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The Dyna S system uses the existing Kawasaki mechanical advance, but replaces the magnetic trigger with their own version. Yes you do grease (I believe the instructions say light coating of oil) the inside of the Dyna magnetic trigger. BUT...you still need to remove the mechanical advance mechanism from the shaft, clean, lube, and reinstall it, then reinstall the Dyna S magnetic trigger.  Make absolutely certain you don't get the trigger 180 degree out of position.

79 KZ650 SR
83 KZ1100 LTD
82 GPz 750
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72 C20 Chevy; 02 Trans Am ... not enough time

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79 KZ650 SR
83 KZ1100 LTD
82 GPz 750
06 ZG1000 Concours

72 C20 Chevy; 02 Trans Am ... not enough time

Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 13 Jul 2018 22:12 #786921

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Redo the spark plug wire connections >> unscrew the ribbed compression boots at the coils >> there should be gaskets n stuff on the plug wires for watertight connections.  The plug caps untwist from the spark plug wires >> if there's crusty oxidation, nip off the ends of the plug wires. 
Or get new 7mm copper core plug wires. OmniSpark set >> possible fitment >> there are many others sets to choose from

Warm up the motorcycle & ride it at highway speed, then stop & feel the coils >> press hard with your fingers >> they should be warm, not hot.  Don't get burned by the valve cover. ..Mine were very hot to the touch, so I got new green Dyna 3.0 ohm coils & new Dyna plug wire set.

Also, the bike needs a good, fully charged battery to run right. and properly maintained, especially if it's a wet cell type >> in case the electrolyte is low & you need to add distilled water.
...

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Last edit: by martin_csr.

Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 16 Jul 2018 05:07 #787028

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Okay so I got the valve cover off, though I had to take my carbs off when it really seemed I had to take the coils off. Checked the valve clearance. All of my exhaust were in spec where as all of my intake side had what seemed like no gap. Couldn't get a .04 mm feeler gauge in and that's like a piece of paper almost. I didn't know how to actually get the valve shims out and was running out of time fighting against the weather. So I cleaned the old valve cover gasket off, put in the new cam end plugs (sealed with Suzuki valve sealant). Let it sit for at least 6 hours and tried to start it just to see if I could take it to work this morning. When I tried to start it it was shooting flames out the exhaust and sounded like gunshots. Discovered I swapped some plug wires around and fixed it. When it ran it didn't want to stay running. Would only run with choke and I couldn't give it full throttle or it'd die. Took it around the block and it was backfiring super bad going down the hill like it did when I had a float stuck open. It barely made it home it was like I had a vacuum leak but I'm almost certain I don't. I didn't adjust anything on the carbs or anything just put it back together. It did get rained on (it was still put together) pretty heavily for about an hour till I got out to cover it. Possible there's rain in the carbs? I do have pod  filters 

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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 16 Jul 2018 06:59 #787034

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You have to pull the cams to replace with smaller shims. That's why PO's sell these bikes saying it's the carbs. You MUST adjust the valves.
Steve

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kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229

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Opinions expressed by me do not reflect those of the the staff or members
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 16 Jul 2018 07:01 #787035

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Get the valve lash within the specified range before proceeding any farther. Running the engine with no measurable lash is inviting expensive damage.
Trying to compensate by messing with the carbs, will only send you around in frustrating circles. The valves have to be properly adjusted before adjusting the carbs, because badly out of adjustment valves will send weak vacuum signals tto the carbs (and to your vacuum guages), causing the mixture to be too lean.
If you try to overcome this with carb adjustments, you will have to redo the carbs all over again once you finally adjust the valves, and you may have a bunch of burned valves and seats to boot.

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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 16 Jul 2018 07:13 #787037

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In an earlier post, you said you have downloaded the factory service manual for your bike. Please, please, please, take a few minutes to carefully read the section on adjusting the valve lash. It is not terribly complicated, but the instructions need to be carefully followed. If you gather all the tools, gaskets and such beforehand (including a shim assortment) you can do this on a Saturday. If you cannot find or afford a shim assortment kit, you will need to order the specific shims you need after determining exactly what you need, so the bike will be down a few days. If there is a repair shop nearby that works on these old air cooled bikes, they may be willing to sell you individual shims.

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1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough

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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 16 Jul 2018 07:17 #787039

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Yes I have called the shop I go to and he said he has shims I'll need. To remove the shaft I just loosen the bolts on the brackets and it's free? I know the timing has to be perfect. So I will read into it 

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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 16 Jul 2018 07:24 #787040

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After setting the crank at tdc on 1/4, remove the cam cover and related stuff, removed the cam chain tensioner, zip tied the chain to the sprockets, and a dozen lesser things, you can remove the cam follower buckets to access the shims. Please read the manual carefully before you begin.

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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 16 Jul 2018 07:24 #787041

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Something simple you can do to minimize any re-installation goofs, is to paint a couple of marks on the timing chain & sprockets using testors model kit paint. Align the timing marks by turning the crankshaft, paint the cam chain & sprockets, then take a good photo before removing anything.  Not the cam chain since I haven't needed to remove that stuff yet, but I painted marks on the drive chain to make lubing it faster.

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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 16 Jul 2018 13:53 #787072

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How do I tell the difference in the cam chain tensioner? Ball lock and cross wedge

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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 16 Jul 2018 14:47 #787078

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The 650-CSR should have the cross-wedge tensioner & it should be pretty obvious as the cross-wedge body is different. compare yours to the pics in the manual. Or look up the part numbers in the diagrams at Partzilla, then check ebbaayy photos.

Locking the tensioner pushrod. cross-wedge type.  Doing this shouldn't be necessary, but the 750-4 manual suggests installing a longer lock bolt in place of the tensioner adjust bolt before removing the tensioner.  It says any M6x16 bolt (1.0 thread pitch) or longer can be used. 110B0616 BOLT HEX HEAD 6X16.  I'd prefer a dog point bolt to prevent gouging the sides of the pushrod groove.  Whatever you end up doing, be sure to reset the tensioner afterwards by removing the cross-wedge then reinstalling it.
...
Warning: do not remove the tensioner adjust bolt when the valve cover is off. The tensioner push rod is under spring pressure & the pushrod could get pushed too far forward by the spring, then fall down into the cam chain tunnel when the cam chain is slackened.

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Kz650 h1 1981 late valve timing? 19 Jul 2018 11:19 #787223

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Well I got it all taken apart, I removed tensioner successfully then the cam shaft. I got the correct shims (so I thought) using the chart in the manual. I misread one of the markings on a shim and went way too small because I thought the reading was 230 but it was 250 and the 5 got smeared just right to look like a 3 unless you really look close. Anyways I put the cam shaft back on and tightened the bolts with just a ratchet then decided i needed to torque it to spec so I rented a torque wrench and I misread the spec in ft lbs instead of in lbs needless to say I snapped the first bolt you tighten in the head. Going to try an easy-out and see if that will get it but if not, what are my options? Lesson well learned lol. However the 3 were right in spec for the lash! :P  also I put the shaft back in exactly how I took it out as I carefully picked it up and moved it forward just enough to get to the buckets and kept the chain on the sprocket. When I reinstalled it, i counted the chain links and it was still dead on but when I tightened it down, the IN marking was sitting above the top of the head. Something I'm doing wrong? 

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