[KZ650][clutch] pushrod/ball/plate welded together

  • Equinoxe
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[KZ650][clutch] pushrod/ball/plate welded together

08 Mar 2012 19:04
#508607
Last week I finished my KZ650 and after a few short test drives I took her out for a long ride (200km/140miles), after a few hours I came back home and just a few meters for my driveway the clutch acted up.
After letting the engine cool down I noticed I couldn't move the push-rod out, which took some convincing arguments from a hammer to get loose.
The push rod had 2 parallel lines or approximately 2 mm bitten into it, and the tip had the marks of the 3/8" ball friction welded to it.
The clutch push-plate had the ball still on it.
Now this was the exact problem the engine had when I bought it, so the rod/ball/plate where used from a scrap bike.
I currently ordered chrome steel alloy bar to replace the push rod, some chrome/steel alloy steel 3/8" balls, and an ape needle bearing clutch pusher.
Is there anything else I can do to prevent this from happening?
(besides making absolutely sure the push-rod isn't pushing the ball to the plate all the time)

Thanks for your input!
KZ650 F2 1981

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  • 650ed
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Re: [KZ650][clutch] pushrod/ball/plate welded together

08 Mar 2012 19:24
#508613
Clearly your clutch was not properly adjusted. Use the instructions in the Kawasaki Service manual and you will never have this problem again. Also, finding some "chrome steel alloy bar to replace the push rod, some chrome/steel alloy steel 3/8" balls" is not necessary; just replace with stock items. With the clutch properly adjusted the stock rod and ball will last forever. Ed
1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
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  • Equinoxe
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Re: [KZ650][clutch] pushrod/ball/plate welded together

08 Mar 2012 19:47
#508618
well, the chrome alloy push-rods are already made and shipped, and the replacement balls and the APE needle bearing push-plate are ordered and shipped, so I can better use these them instead of trying to find another set of stock ones.

But I will re-read the service manual and try to find out what (or if something) went wrong with the installation, because I could swear I turned the setting screw 1/4 of a turn loose after the rod was making contact with ball and plate (which I could test with the clutch lever).
KZ650 F2 1981

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  • mark1122
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Re: [KZ650][clutch] pushrod/ball/plate welded together

08 Mar 2012 19:56
#508619
just make sure that u do indeed have some play when u r done with the adjustment. i'm sure u can see that this is a nessesity. without some space between these parts there is just too much friction to overcome.
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Re: [KZ650][clutch] pushrod/ball/plate welded together

14 Mar 2012 20:05 - 15 Mar 2012 18:55
#509679
650ed wrote: Clearly your clutch was not properly adjusted. Use the instructions in the Kawasaki Service manual and you will never have this problem again. Also, finding some "chrome steel alloy bar to replace the push rod, some chrome/steel alloy steel 3/8" balls" is not necessary; just replace with stock items. With the clutch properly adjusted the stock rod and ball will last forever. Ed

Well...

On this advice (not really ;) I was just impatient :P) I replaced the pieces with what I had lying around:
-OEM clutchpusher (my ape KCB900 wasn't in yet), chrome-alloy 3/8 steel ball and a 912din steel push rod.
Of course I adjusted the clutch rod properly (just like last time), this time I even let 10 mm clearance instead of the 3mm I had last time.
After 30 km I took the clutch apart again to look what had happened:
As expected (but wished it wouldn't be so): the pushplate and the rod had a noticeable dent and the ball was scuffed..

I looked further and noticed that the clutch springs weren't exactly OEM, they are the high power ones..
Apparently one of the previous owners (I bought it from someone who bought it as a dead donor bike) thought it would be wise to replace the clutch-springs, drive until the ball melted to the push-plate AND rod (!!) which finally snapped the rod.. (one of the many (many..) things I had to fix)


Luckily today the APE pusher came in from Z1E, and since I had so much practice recently, it was in in no time.
That, a new steel ball, a new pushrod and a bunch of Moly on the parts (but not the bearings..) made the old girl happy again.

I still have to do a long drive to be absolutely sure, but so far so good!
This needle bearing thing really reduces the friction between rod, ball and plate :)
KZ650 F2 1981
Last edit: 15 Mar 2012 18:55 by Equinoxe. Reason: found a nasty typo, still left some for others to find ;)

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Re: [KZ650][clutch] pushrod/ball/plate welded together

14 Mar 2012 21:29
#509691
I've looked at the needle bearing pusher gizmo and considered putting one in next time I have things opened up. What keeps it in place so it stays centered? Thanks, Ed
1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

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  • timebomb33
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Re: [KZ650][clutch] pushrod/ball/plate welded together

15 Mar 2012 00:30 - 15 Mar 2012 00:31
#509746
it really has nothing to do with the clutch adjustment what causes it is extra heat built up by running it hard, once you replace the pusher with the needle bearing unit your problem is solved i have done the same thing a couple of times my self it usally happens right after a hard run then you pull the clutch in quickly and coast. the stock set-up can and will weld itself together. by the way the needle bearing pusher is a very good investment if you ride really hard or are a racer of any kind.
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Last edit: 15 Mar 2012 00:31 by timebomb33.

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  • Equinoxe
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Re: [KZ650][clutch] pushrod/ball/plate welded together

15 Mar 2012 18:50
#509864
@650ed,
I had the same concerns regarding the bearings.
But the push-plate has an elivated middle, this fits into the dent of the clutchplate, so the needle bearing and the two steel plates can't fall through (although I wouldn't give it too much slack just to be sure ;) ).


@timebomb33 indeed, it happened after a long and hard run, luckily only a few meters (yard) before my driveway.
The needle needle bearing pusher is quite a good investment, and for the price of $29.95 I'd have trouble finding an OEM in my country to be honest..
Besides, I just did a nightly testrun and I love the good response the clutch is giving me now.
Still have a lot to do on the old lady, but at least it runs without clutch problems.
KZ650 F2 1981

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