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TOPIC: Fuel warning light switch or sensor?

Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470357

My CSR KZ1000 M2 1982 has a fuel warning light checker. The previous owner has swapped the clocks over to Honda GL clocks and they don't have a spare light fitting in the Custer to use as a fuel warning light. But it has a temp gauge which I thought I could use. The CSR tank has only the fuel switch rather than the sensor. I have no cut out for the sensor in the tank, but it looks like it is moulded in the way to take the sensor. Now, i think about a few options on how to best use what I have. In order to do so, does anybody know how the Fuel warning light self checker works? There are three wires. I think one is 12v+ and the other -. what is the third wire for? Can I test the checker to see if it is still ok and usable? Also, maybe it is easy to cut a hole in the tank to take the sensor, so I can make use of the gauge in one of the clocks. Has anybody done this before? I am not sure how to get threads fitted once the hole is cut to hold the sensor foot plate? Any suggestions to get me think would be welcome.
1982 KZ1000 CSR M
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470361

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Pictures? Some of the Kawasaki's had a floating sensor(actually a float on the end of an arm) with 2 wires that when raised/lowered changed resistances indicated on the instrument panel.

As for a 3 wire hook up, I'm puzzled about that one.

How's Loudhvx's IC Igniter replacement working?
1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470362

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There is a wiring diagram in File Base for your bike, www.kzrider.com/filebase/cat_view/102-19...-kawasaki-kz-1000-m2
i shows the three wires for the Level sensor. Black/ yellow is ground. brown is + ignition switched voltage and the Green/ White is a ground that happens when the switch is closed, Low Fuel. That wire is the one that would be the ground for the warning light, with one side of the bulb hot from the Brown wire, and the Green/ White providing the ground when Fuel is Low.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470366

MFolks wrote:
How's Loudhvx's IC Igniter replacement working?

Good of you to remember!!! The ignition is working without any problems. In the meantime I had the cylinder changed as i had some bad scoring in all bores but very bad in #3 and #4. I used about 1L of oil for every 150miles and after the last winter it would not run very well. So I decided to take everything off so I have no excuse not to investigate and sort the oil problem. But now the bike is absolutely flying and I am happy with everything, well most of it. The starter clutch and center bolt for the rotor keeps coming loose and I am trying to fix it and now I also would like to figure out what options I have with the Honda clocks and a possible fuel indicator come warning.

The switch is part No 27010
C:\fakepath\tank.pdf

not sure what I am doing wrong, but I can not attache a picture?
1982 KZ1000 CSR M
Last Edit: 3 years 2 months ago by Schorly.
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470369

Motor Head wrote:
There is a wiring diagram in File Base for your bike, www.kzrider.com/filebase/cat_view/102-19...-kawasaki-kz-1000-m2
i shows the three wires for the Level sensor. Black/ yellow is ground. brown is + ignition switched voltage and the Green/ White is a ground that happens when the switch is closed, Low Fuel. That wire is the one that would be the ground for the warning light, with one side of the bulb hot from the Brown wire, and the Green/ White providing the ground when Fuel is Low.

So I understand the switch in the tank is grounding the warning light. What is the self checker doing?
1982 KZ1000 CSR M
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470370

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Well i have a different bike, with the gauge. So explain what you mean by "Self Checker".
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470374

Motor Head wrote:
Well i have a different bike, with the gauge. So explain what you mean by "Self Checker".

On the diagram you pointed out to me are the 4 left handle bar switches shown. This is on the bottom of the diagram in the left hand half on the right. Just above there is the self checker on a three pin connector.
1982 KZ1000 CSR M
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470378

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Oh I see, I actually was looking at that thinking this was the sender. Now I see there is a two wire sender switch, that is a simple ground when Fuel Low. So I have looked through the Manual trying to find info on the self checker, three wire unit. I don't see it, but I would say what it does is a bulb and circuit self check. Does the warning light come on when first started for a bit then go out? this is how most would operate in Cars.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470391

Yes, my manual does not mention the self checker unit either. It just talks about the sender unit and I think this one does work without a self checker. Before i start trying out several things I just want to make sure all the units are working as they should. I assumed the switch in the tank is just an on off switch so I should read 0 ohm or open circuit, but I read about 2kohm and I have petrol in the tank. So maybe this will switch to 0 ohm when towards empty and the switch is active. But I don't know what to expect on the self checker unit, hence I would like to understand how it works.
1982 KZ1000 CSR M
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470396

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I'm thinking it would be a timer circuit. But could be wrong, as I don't have one on any bike I have had. They either had a gauge and sender or nothing. Just a low fuel light, I would think the "Self Checker" would Illuminate the bulb on start up briefly, then just leave that part of the circuit open, and let the switch take over.
It has the three wires, power, ground and one output which is also power. so you could hook it up, the power and ground. then test the output to see if my "Timer" theory is correct.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470410

It would make sense as the switch in the tank could provide earth when switched or the the self checker unit. Does this mean there is a relay in the checker unit with a large capacitor to provide a time delay? I will try a bit more tomorrow as it is now late where I live. Thanks for your thoughts so far. The best would be if I could change the switch in the tank for a sender unit, but i fear it is a bit awkward to get around the complex shape of the petrol tank for float to move up and down freely.
1982 KZ1000 CSR M
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470413

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Would the OEM Kawasaki sender from a same year but different model fit? Can you post a picture of the mounting for the Switch? The sender on my 82 has six small shouldered screws holding it in. Then inside the tank there is a baffle, around the float arm area.
There are also a lot of Universal float made, to upgrade some tanks that never had floats.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470427

The mounting of the switch is the same than the petrol tap, just on the opposite side of the tank. Its a square hole for the switch to go through and two bolts front and back.
The problem is that it is on the bottom of the tank and the way the tank is shaped the float would need to raise up and than move across as it would hit the side wall of the tank otherwise.
The sensor on other models is towards the top of the tank and the float is moving down.
1982 KZ1000 CSR M
Last Edit: 3 years 2 months ago by Schorly.
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470431

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The Kawasaki one I have has quite a long Arm, with the float on it. Up from the bottom, then goes in so it sweeps in the front fatter part of the tank. On one side of course. But with the same mounting as the Petcock, well i can't think of a bolt in, which doesn't mean there isn't. Maybe someone has retrofitted one of these?
Otherwise a universal might be adapted, but it would mean modifying the current hole.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470590

This is the mounting of the fuel switch in the tank

fuelsender.JPG


I have copied the aperture so I can try to make my own fuel level sensor replacement

fuelsender2.JPG


I also have started to modify a fuel level sensor from a Suzuki.

fuelsender1.JPG


I changed the float to a slimmer design, so that I can feed it through he rectangular hole. I had to take off a lot of the plastic housing and I had a new footplate machined, which will take the sensor when finished (or this was the plan).

One thing I have always worried about was that the contacts and wires and the row of resistors are all submerged and in contact with the fuel. Is this not a bit dangerous. If there is a short, than the part with the highest resistance will heat up most, which is the row of resistors on the sensor. But from what I can make out is that all others are design in the same way?

You mentioned a sensor mounted on the bottom of the tank on your bike. What bike is that, please? maybe this is an alternative for what I am trying to do.
1982 KZ1000 CSR M
Last Edit: 3 years 2 months ago by Schorly.
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 2 months ago #470598

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My Bike is an 82 KZ1000 K2 LTD.
This is what mine looks like, its the same I think: cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1995-KZ1000P-KZ1...&hash=item27bd256232
There shouldn't be any resistors submerged on a sending unit. They have a wrap of wire across a flat surface, to get a varying Gap along the surface. Narrow at the Full, and wider at the Empty. Then the pivot has a wiper contact that goes over the wire "Grid". Or the later style has a more circuit board type, with still a wiper type of contact. The Wire Wrap style is pretty easy to recreate on a flat piece of insulated material. Of course that material would have to hold up to Gas, and Ethanol.
With the size of you opening, I'm wondering if anything will go up in there easily. The floats are usually larger than that hole you have there.
I wonder the dimensions on this R1 sender? cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-R1-FUEL-LEV...&hash=item3cbb0d78d2
I'll look and see if I can find one I pulled out of a Jeep Cherokee. Just the Sensor part without the float. If I can find it I'll get the camera out and see if I can get a decent picture.
Any one you end up using, you can adjust with a resistor to get the scale right. Maybe use a Potentiometer/ variable resistor, to get the spec. then add the small resistor in the harness near the unit.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
Last Edit: 3 years 1 month ago by Motor Head.
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 1 month ago #470618

when I said row of resistors ion the sensor I meant the printed board type as I have used from the Suzuki. It is more or less the same with the wires you mentioned. The wiper moving across them will provide different resistance values. But in any case it looks like that current is flowing through the wire or printed circuit board which is submerged in fuel. This is not a problem? Your LTD sensor is I think fitted at the top of the tank with the float dropping down when fuel gets lower. I would not be able to get that through the rectangular opening. The R1 sensor is I think the switch, which I have. I think this just switches at a certain level and makes the warning light coming on.
I have tried to hook up a bulb to see if the switch works, but no luck so far. i wonder if the switch is not working.
1982 KZ1000 CSR M
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 1 month ago #470621

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The float/ sender on my LTD does mount in the bottom. But it is much larger than the opening you have.
So you are testing your switch, and it won't work?
The small amount of current on those senders is/ has been OK for all systems. it is just a variable ground. Some use the tank body for the ground, and some go back into the main ground circuit, or frame. This is the way with Plastic tanks, which Dominate the Car industry anymore.
If the Suzuki one you have is the plastic, and printed circuit type, that is what I pulled out of the Jeep. So i won't bother with that picture.
I can't be sure, but I think the R1 part is for the gauge. It looks to have a float, and groove up the side. A switch would only have to be very short, so it gets exposed at low fuel levels.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
Last Edit: 3 years 1 month ago by Motor Head.
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 1 month ago #470626

When you say your sensor fits on the bottom of the tank I assume you mean from underneath? but I think it stills sits in the upper part of the tank, but I am not sure.
I think the part which looks likes float is fixed to the stem in a position so that it is switching, but there is still fuel left as a reserve. I think there are no moving parts on the R1 although it is a bit strange as the year would suggest that they all had gauges rather than just simple switches. Do you know if the R1 has a gauge or just a warning light?
Yes, I tried to wire everything up correctly as the previous owner has messed with the cables. I hooked up a light bulb but I can not get it to come on. This is why I would like to understand what the self checker unit does and how it works. Here is what it looks like.

CEyiMCQEGkKGrHqIOKjIE0bGvLG2jBNTB-eQ4dg_12.JPG

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290530809115?ssPageNa...l2649#ht_1911wt_1137

The diagrams for the Kawasaki's with gauges don't show the self checker so I assume they don't need one. So if I can find a way with a sensor and using the temperature gauge in my clocks to show the fuel level I would rather go this way than with a warning light only.

I just dug out a spar fuel tank I have an took a picture of the bottom.

fueltank.JPG


On the top side is the position for the petrol tap, the bottom is the switch hole. Just to the left of it is a recess with a large round flat towards the top of the tank. This is I think where the LTD (mine is the CSR) has the sensor mounted.
1982 KZ1000 CSR M
Last Edit: 3 years 1 month ago by Schorly.
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Fuel warning light switch or sensor? 3 years 1 month ago #470664

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I Don't know for sure, but the R1 would most likely have both a fuel gauge and a low level warning light. Or it could be that it just has different light colors on the bottom of its scale. No needles there I believe just a row of LEDs. It would just use the resistance to switch on the appropriate lights on the scale.
Mine bolts up to the bottom of the tank as does your switch. Of course the mount is larger, and has a flange for it to screw to. The float arm would pivot up and down on the right hand side of the tank. This is where your switch also sits, right side.
What about a used tank, with sender for gauge from an LTD? I think the tank is the same but has the sending unit instead of the switch. The ones from the Shaft drive 82 A@, which I just sold, has the same sender but the tank is longer. they hold 5 gallons instead of the 4.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
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