TOPIC:

Id also make sure the wires feeding the points & condensor are not grounded where they attach to the points, make sure the little fiber insualtors are on there and were not left out by the previous owner. Maybe thats why he sold it, he couldnt get it to run either

Am more accustomed to seeing the condensers mounted
whereby the wires exit from the engine side of the
backing plate (the solder joints being hidden from
view) and loop back through the backing plate to
their respective attachments to the point bases.

Perhaps the solder joints shown in the photo
(facing to the outside) are contacting the
point cover and shorting out against the point
cover when the point cover is installed.

Just a guess. If not already done,
could leave the point cover off while attempting
to gain spark. Good Luck!

In the photo of wires entering the points area,
it appears to show a red and a blue wire.
What's up with that?
Supposed to be only two wires entering the points area,
namely a black wire and a green wire.
The black wire from the leftside points
goes to the coil firing #1/4,
and the green wire from the rightside points
goes to the coil firing #2/3.

Regardless of wire color, the connections
should be as stated (left-points to #1/4 coil,
and right points to #2/3 coil).

Good Luck!

is that red/blue wire go to the oil pressure switch?
i dont remember what stock color is on the 650 but my dyna-s came with a solid blue one!

steveo_4192003 wrote:

is that red/blue wire go to the oil
pressure switch? i dont remember what stock
color is on the 650 but my dyna-s came with
a solid blue one!

Should have noted my frame of reference being Z1 and KZ900.
Am now understanding that the KZ650 points
ignition system may have one or more additional
wires from the harness entering the points area
besides the two signal wires for the coils.

In addition to the two coil signal wires,
the Dyna-S ignition on Z1 and KZ900 is powered
by a third "red" battery positive wire into the
modules (three wires from the harness entering
the points area). Other models may have two
separate power wires (red?) -- and I just learned
from steveo that a "blue" wire may also be present
with some Dyna-S ignitions.

Also, just looked at the 1978 KZ650 wiring
diagram which confirms a red/blue wire going
to the oil pressure switch, as steveo suggested.

Good Luck!

Thanks so far but you have just repeated what has already been done.
What about that open connector in the picture?.........
And Could the rectifier cause the bike to not spark? The coils are both gettng 12dcv of power?

WHY wont this work?

No blown fuses and no bad parts...

HOW DO I CHECK THE GAPPING OF THE POINTS?

superman63086 wrote:

Thanks so far but you have
just repeated what has already been done.
What about that open connector in the picture?.........
And Could the rectifier cause the bike
to not spark?
The coils are both gettng 12dcv of power?

WHY wont this work?

No blown fuses and no bad parts...

HOW DO I CHECK THE GAPPING OF THE POINTS?

Thanks so far but you have just
repeated what has already been done --
but something which has already been done
by somebody has been done wrong.

What about that open connector
in the picture? --
As shown in the photo, the dual connector
from harness green wire has only a single
connecting green wire coming from the dual
connector, which presumably attaches to
a #2/3 coil terminal, and the green harness
wire is presumably the signal wire from
the righthand points. If these presumptions
are correct, the unused dual connector hole
may be ignored. All of which is consistent
with previously posted information.

As shown in the photo, the dual connector
from the harness red/yellow wire has one
red/yellow wire hooked to it and one
black wire hooked to it.
The red/yellow wire from the connector
is supposed to attach to a #1/4 or
#2/3 coil terminal. The other wire
from the connector is supposed to
be another red/yellow wire which
attaches to the other coil terminal.
Because of this, the "black" wire is supicious.
But the "black" color is okay
(any color, even polka dot, would be okay)
so long as it connects to a coil terminal
on the coil not already served by the
existing red/yellow wire from the
dual connector. All of which is
consistent with previously posted information

And Could the rectifier cause the bike to not spark?--
Not likely here in this case where each
coil is reportedly already getting 12 volts DC
(one coil being served by a red/yellow 12 volt wire,
and the other coil being presumably served by
a "black" 12 volt wire).

The coils are both gettng 12dcv of power?--
Hoping the question mark is a "typo"
and that each coil has one primary terminal
being supplied with positive battery voltage.

WHY wont this work?--
Can't think of anything not already
covered in earlier posts, especially where
there are No blown fuses and no bad parts.

HOW DO I CHECK THE GAPPING OF THE POINTS?--
By using a feeler gauge.

Good Luck!

OK yes the "?" was a typo.
They are getting 12dcv
Thanks for the clarification on the rectifier.

And now that I now how to check the gapping, what are they suppose to be gapped at?

CAN the points gap and still be BAD? And could someone have messed with the points previously and screwed with the timing so that it wont spark?

Just trying to narrow the playing field I am running out of options.

Thanks.

superman63086 wrote:

OK yes the "?" was a typo.
They are getting 12dcv
Thanks for the clarification
on the rectifier.

And now that I now how to check the gapping,
what are they suppose to be gapped at?

CAN the points gap and still be BAD?
And could someone have messed with the
points previously and screwed with the
timing so that it wont spark?

Just trying to narrow the playing field
I am running out of options.

Thanks.

Points Gap-- Don't have the exact
gap measurement at hand. In an emergency,
may temporarily go by thickness of a
matchbook cover.

Timing and sparking --
Wrong timing alone won't
cause spark failure.
Wrong timing will cause the spark
to happen at the wrong time,
but it should still spark.

CAN the points gap and still be BAD?
From earlier posts in this thread,
perhaps worthy of further review:

[Patton] Perhaps the points are dirty
and failing to close. When closed,
the coil primary winding is supposed
to be grounded through the points,
which allows current flow creating
the magnetic field inside the coil.

Upon points opening, the ground is interrupted,
causing the magnetic field to collaspe which
creates high voltage in the secondary winding
loop through the spark plugs.

If the points aren't "closing" in the
first place (i.e., allowing the coil
primary to ground), the coil doesn't
get "charged up" so it can't function
as it's supposed to when the points open.

[bountyhunter] The primary (low voltage) side
of a coil has NO GROUND. It has +12V on
the positive end, and it has the other
end connected to the points which ground
when closed and then open to generate the spark.

If you have confirmed solid +12V to
the positive side of the coil, do this:

Disconnect the negative battery cable.

Connect an Ohm meter to check continuity
from the negative side of the coil to the
points.

Ohm from the negative side of the coil
to ground, and turn the crankshaft manually:
does the meter read ground continuity when the
points are closed and then open when the points open?

If so, the coil secondary should be sparking.


Keep the faith!

Im not hurting anything my turning the crack manually right?

And when I do this what ohm setting does it need to be on. I am not familiar with electronics or I would probably have fixed this stupid thing by now.

The points seem to be gapped right and close completely.

One more question? if the starter is going bad i.e. "making noise" could this be the cause for no spark? Even if it is turning over and getting power?

superman63086 wrote:

Im not hurting anything my
turning the crack manually right?

And when I do this what ohm setting
does it need to be on. I am not
familiar with electronics or
I would probably have fixed this
stupid thing by now.

The points seem to be gapped right
and close completely.

One more question? if the starter
is going bad i.e. "making noise"
could this be the cause for no spark?
Even if it is turning over
and getting power?

Use the larger 17mm "nut" to
turn the crankshaft clockwise.
Don't use the smaller bolt head
at the end of the crankshaft.

Noisy starter isn't preventing spark.

Ohmmeter is used to determine whether
there is or is not continuity.
With points open, should be zero
continuity between point contacts.
With points closed, should be full
continuity between point contacts.

Performing the test described by
bountyhunter will reveal whether or not
the opening and closing of the points
is properly grounding and
ungrounding the coil.

Righthand points are supposed to
ground and unground the #2/3 coil.

Lefthand points are supposed to
ground and unground the #1/4 coil.

"Ground" is with points closed.
"Unground" is with points open.

#2/3 coil refers to the coil feeding
the two inside sparkplugs.

#1/4 coil refers to the coil feeding
the two outside sparkplugs.

The condenser wire connections are
not supposed to be grounded.
And if grounded, they are allowing the
points to stay always "closed" regardless
of an open gap. If always closed,
the coil cannot fire. Because it is the
opening of the gap which makes the coil fire.


Good Luck!