TOPIC:

Thank you again gentlemen!

As always, your input, answers and experiences give me great confidence.
So basically, it sounds like the two engine seals on either end of the crankshaft (look same but apparently subtly different) are the only two seals I can't replace unless I crack open the case down there.
Seems a shame because aren't those seals the most likely to leak.

See how this is for the neophyte KZ fan?
Every time I do something that I think will make the situation better and take one more step closer to the finish line; the bike smirks at me, tempting me deeper into the shadowed darkness and unknown...
Splitting the cases? A little? To replace 2 seals?

I can hear it now - metallic, clanking sounds as internal parts slip out of position. Slippery, shining bits of metal pins or bearing races sporadically clink out into the light... Primordial ooze weeps over the edges of erstwhile dry gasket surfaces, never to be dry again because I didn't go whole hog and split the case the whole way... Down...Deeper... Darker... Into the...

Nothing is going to go sproinggggg. You're there so why not?
Steve

Well... dang it. I know it's the right thing to do. I'm just skeered

So paint me a picture. How's it go?
0 - impact wrench to remove the flywheel but the cylinder head is still not installed; how to lock-u the motor for that tough bolt?
1 - remove the oil pan. I have a gasket set that probably includes a new pan gasket.
2 - loosen all those bolts squeezing the lower half onto the upper half. How much is enough loosening to pry out the seals?
3 - Slip off, slip on new seals.
4 - reverse everything back

Is that about it?
What happens to the case halves I split open; won't they leak when reassembled?
Still nervous since my cylinder head is still in the bag.
I can't really move the engine around as I don't have an engine mount; it's just sitting on my bench, on it's oil pan, on 2 blocks of wood. Guess I hafta make-up some kind of jig to hold the engine on it's sides? Timing side jig to replace flywheel seal and output shaft side to replace the timing seal.

If it's not leaking you can roll the dice and move on. You will take all the bolts off the top of the case then turn it upside down for the bottom ones.
One of our members fashioned a tool to hold the rotor while removing the bolt.
Steve

I've seen Patton come up with some trick but simple tools, like using an old chain to wrap around a sprocket and then punch it and put a bolt through to act as a pinch and lever/handle, maybe something along these lines?

Brett

Yes. I ultimately had to use that member idea of the chain around the drive sprocket with two 1/4" bolts to lock it up BUT KZombie doesn't even have the new sprocket installed yet...
I wasn't going to start rebuilding the engine until I could mount the stripped-down lunk into the frame. Sigh...
Is this case split something that could be accomplished once the engine is back in the bike frame maybe? I mean, I had purchased gasket collections long ago to rebuild the engine but I never got that far back then when I had access to my full-on shop with all the tool toys I need to be ... less skeered of tackling such a job.

I keep going back to the fact the bike has low miles as to reasoning for not doing a full tear-down but then 30+ years of sitting in that field makes me think rubber seals are probably brick-hard and even though the engine has always been a dry one. It has never run in my ownership so once I get Humpty all back together and running (Wow! How's that for confidence?) how many of the rubber bits are going to go the way of the Dodo?

Dilemma

Grit your teeth, hold hour breath and dive in, the water's fine.
Steve

wrenchmonkey wrote: Yes. I ultimately had to use that member idea of the chain around the drive sprocket with two 1/4" bolts to lock it up BUT KZombie doesn't even have the new sprocket installed yet...
I wasn't going to start rebuilding the engine until I could mount the stripped-down lunk into the frame. Sigh...
Is this case split something that could be accomplished once the engine is back in the bike frame maybe? I mean, I had purchased gasket collections long ago to rebuild the engine but I never got that far back then when I had access to my full-on shop with all the tool toys I need to be ... less skeered of tackling such a job.

I keep going back to the fact the bike has low miles as to reasoning for not doing a full tear-down but then 30+ years of sitting in that field makes me think rubber seals are probably brick-hard and even though the engine has always been a dry one. It has never run in my ownership so once I get Humpty all back together and running (Wow! How's that for confidence?) how many of the rubber bits are going to go the way of the Dodo?

Dilemma

It would certainly be a calculated risk, taken plenty of them myself over the years and sometimes I come out smelling like a rose and other times I come out smelling... well NOT like a rose HAHAA! I would say if you have the ability to split the cases and it isn't a massive PITA at this stage it would be worth doing, if not then well you can always rip the motor out again should you have to. Would it suck to do that, ohhhh yeah! BUT, gotta do what you gotta do so you can take the gamble and hope for something other than Snake-Eyes

Brett

Well, just as I get the last of the case covers buffed up acceptably (the clutch cover was really rough and still needs a little more lovin'), I guess I'm going to just have to suck it up.
I can't bring myself to reassemble the engine from this point knowing those old seals are likely crusty as toast behind the timing and flywheels.
Executive decision time!
I'm going to just go full monty on this biotch and tear it down!

So I still have to work out how to remove that flywheel now that I have no way to lock-up the engine but I'll figure something out I reckon.
Plan now is to stand the lunk up on it's ass end and pull the pan, loosen the lower case so those seals can be replaced. Dayum, I can't believe I just said that? What's the worse than can happen; right?

The horror... the horror...

Put the sprocket back on with the old chain and lock it. You'll need to do it anyway to tighten the bolt.
Steve

It's been a while since I did something that scared me but the thought of splitting KZombie's engine case has me nervous. Still, last night, I began stripping down all the buffed-up covers and preparing myself for what is inevitable.
I pulled the clutch and timing and found this:

Not too bad; right?
The clutch plates were definitely stuck together. Like 70% of them came off in groups of 2,3 or 4 friction discs and plates. I noticed that most of the plates are rusty:

The FSM says to clean these all up well with kerosene or equivalent which makes sense and I will but should I also buff up the plates (not the friction discs) with emery cloth to remove those rusty square patches? Or just leave it. I'm thinking that rusty surface will be very "grabby" when the whole shootin' match goes back together.
Here's a close-up of the discs and plates:


I spent some time scraping off the clutch cover gasket which was like iron that had been glued to the case. A little sludgy oil was built up on all the horizontal surfaces along the bottom too but I reckon that is normal.
Clearly, the upper case half and the lower case half are glued together and that sealer/adhesive is hardened now but still a valid seal. I inspected the seal on the timing end of the crank and it looks good. No obvious signs of a tear in the sealing surface. I have a teeny-weeny flat blade screwdriver which I ran around the perimeter of that seal/crank-end and found a little dirt but the seal seemed to be pliable still. Hmm? Maybe it's still OK?
Another close-up of the seal in question:


Then I spun the engine around and worked over the left side. To my surprise and relief, the bolt holding the engine rotor/flywheel/whatever you call it, came off with little drama. I gripped the rotor with my workgloved hand and put the impact on the bolt and VRRRZZZ! off it came. No engine locking-up required. Nice!
End result of stripping down the engine's left side is here:

I could not for the life of me, get that rotor/flywheel off. I resisted the temptation to stuff a BF pry bar up in that shizzle and start banging it against the case sides for obvious reasons and over the course of the night spritzed quite a bit of PB down the threaded bore. Gently tapping the edges with the wood handle of my small hammer to hopefully get the oil to work-in. Ultimately though, I was never able to get that rotor off. My hands and fingers were suitably drenched in motor oil and penetrating oils by this point so I couldn't flip through the FSM but just knew in my heart some page deep inside was showing another famous Kawasaki Special Tool # blah blah blah, that I didn't have.
Here's as close-up as I could manage with my oily hands on my slippery phone:


Later, after walking the dodgie and dinner, I was surfin' the forum here and think I found via a few searches that other guys that ran into this problem used "a ball bearing of 3/8" diameter and a matching threaded bolt". Or maybe I was misunderstanding. Does that sound like an at-home tool solution? In my brain, I visualize putting a 3/8" ball bearing down that rotor hole, followed by a threaded bolt and logically then as I tighten the bolt, it presses against the ball bearing which in turn presses against ... the crank? which then presses the rotor off.
Seems logical but makes me wonder:
- Isn't the stock bolt that I removed, threaded into the crankshaft end to hold the rotor to it? If so, then what threads exist in the rotor to cause another bolt to press against this ball bearing? ie: what is the thread pitch of the magical bolt I need to buy and who sells individual ball bearings?
- are there other options to removing this rotor/flywheel piece?

My assumption is the rotor is wedge mated on the crankshaft end, so the crank is sorta inserted into a receiver in the rotor as seen from the inside. Will tapping the rotor so as not to crack, warp or distort it do anything at all?

Then, I ASSuME, I could potentially get to splitting the case halves for the ultimate goal of crank seal replacement. I reckon I should just go ahead and suck it up; pull the cylinder bank off to relieve the resistance of the pistons against the block during crank case separation. I really wanted to avoid this because installing the cylinder bank over 4 pistons at the same time looks to me like a real handful when you're basically banging rocks together over the first caveman's fire (my workbench and tooling at present).

Thoughts? Suggestions? Achtungs!? ?

I would clean those clutch plates with a Scotchbrite pad. Ed