TOPIC:

loudhvx wrote:
There are many differences in the 1977 kz650 C model from the 750 and 550. Mostly charging system differences. Luckily, I have a bare-bones diagram for that bike as well, but I need to know if you will keep the starter or go kick-only. Unfortunately, the 77 650's must retain a battery, even if going kick-only.

I appreciate your offer to help, but I need to clarify that I have a 79 650 C, not a 77. I don't know what difference if any this makes but I thought I had better clarify. Also, a little background information might be useful. I am having a charging issue and the bike will kick over just fine for the first several days after I remove the battery and charge it on an external charger, but sooner or later the battery gets drained down to the point that even the kick start won't turn her over. If the 79 is different than the 77 and I can get away with changing a few things around and eliminating the battery, that would be great and I will ditch the starter and just go kick-only. If I have to keep the battery in the loop though, then I may as well keep the starter in place. Also, I know that this is a "bare-bones" thread, but I'm really not looking to get rid of anything (other than the battery, if possible) rather I am flirting with the idea of trashing the rat's nest of wires that I have and starting from scratch. Has anyone pulled off a 79 650 C with no battery? If so, is ther a wiring diagram out there that I could follow? I'd appreciate any help you can give me.

Sorry, I don't know what I looked at that made me think you had a 77.

The 79 650 is definitely a candidate for going battery-less, but I haven't actually done it on the that bike. The charging system is similar to the late 1970's KZ 400's, and I know they can go batteryless.

The most important thing is that the bike must be well tuned, and beable to start reliably on the first or second kick. Going batteryless will only make a hard starting bike harder to start.

All you need to do is setup a switch to kill all of the accesories and lights other than the ignition and regulator/rectifier. That way, all of the electrical energy from the kick will go into the ignition.

You need a capacitor wired in place of the battery. It should be from about 5000uF to 12000uF, and be about 50v.

If you want a simplified diagram retaining most of the stock components, I can draw that too.

Thank you so much for your help loudhvx. You seem to be one of the bike gurus that make this awesome site such a crucial resource for us guys that are just starting out. I would love to take you up on your offer to draft up a diagram showing the stock components and where I could put in the switch and capacitor to go battery-less. Also, I needed to know what kind of switch to use. Any suggestions?

Well, if you're going to keep the bike close to stock electrically (except battery and starter), I'm not sure if it's worth the effort just to fix a charging problem. I have started on a diagram, I'll see if it will post.

It would be a lot of work to re-do the whole thing. We should get the charging system fixed first anyway just to know what the problem is.

EDIT 1/9/2019:
Mattylight Barebones Bare Bones Wiring Diagram
1979 Kawasaki Kz650C3 batteryless for 650inVegas
Kz650C Kz650 C3 Kz 650 C 650C3 650C

Wow, awesome, I can finally draw diagrams wider than 500 pixels and they show up! Woohoo! (Do you know how hard it's been to make every drawing I post narrower than 500pxl?)

Everything to the left of the light/accessories switch is off the top of my head, so some colors may be wrong and there are several things missing, but it's just to give you an idea of how it would work electrically.

I drew the ignition switch as a simple on-off without the park option, but this allows for redundant contacts to reduce the chance of failure.

The 20-amp switch has to be a decent bakelight-and-metal toggle. Don't use cheap plastic switches, they tend to melt in the on position (a friend learned the hard way, he had to pull his main fuse to turn off his bike).

So I guess you need to decide if you really want to tackle a complete re-wire or just try to neaten things up, or just troubleshoot the charging system.

Hi to all. I could use some help on the bare bones wiring subject. I have a 1977 KZ1000 engine. I will be using it in a 2/3 scale WWll jeep. I need to do a bare bones wiring on it. It just needs to run and charge the battery. I am having a hard time finding someone locally to do that. Any help would be appreciated. I will post pictures on the build if I can ever get this engine running.
Thanks for your help, this is a great site.

snerff wrote:

Hi to all. I could use some help on the bare bones wiring subject. I have a 1977 KZ1000 engine. I will be using it in a 2/3 scale WWll jeep. I need to do a bare bones wiring on it. It just needs to run and charge the battery. I am having a hard time finding someone locally to do that. Any help would be appreciated. I will post pictures on the build if I can ever get this engine running.
Thanks for your help, this is a great site.

Starter or no starter?
Here's both

really appreciate this, saves me a lot of headaches, thanks again.

Again thanks for the great diagram on the KZ1000. I do have one last question. The points were replaced by a Dayna s. How would that fit into the diagram in place of the points? I hate to sound dumb but I did get confused about the points wiring. The wires out of the engine cover are red black and white.Thanks again.

snerff wrote:

Again thanks for the great diagram on the KZ1000. I do have one last question. The points were replaced by a Dayna s. How would that fit into the diagram in place of the points? I hate to sound dumb but I did get confused about the points wiring. The wires out of the engine cover are red black and white.Thanks again.

Are you sure it's red, black, and white?
The instructions for the Dyna S show red, black, and green.

www.dynaonline.com/downloads/instruct/DS2-1_2-2.pdf

Not so sure now, I will check again and let you know, Thanks. As always, thanks for the quick response, I will check later this morning.

I hope you do not get tired of this. I made a drawing of what comes out of the engine. 4 wires come out of the dayna s and go into a sleeve with 3 wires comming out of the other end. The only 3 yellow wires I can see come from the item on the right bottom of the page. I think I,m getting confused and thanks for putting up with me.

snerff wrote:

I hope you do not get tired of this. I made a drawing of what comes out of the engine. 4 wires come out of the dayna s and go into a sleeve with 3 wires comming out of the other end. The only 3 yellow wires I can see come from the item on the right bottom of the page. I think I,m getting confused and thanks for putting up with me.

Here's some ID to what you have. If it's a Dyna S, you may need older or newer instructions. Some Dyna S models did come red, black, white. The one for the Suzuki GS shows white instead of green. Are you sure it's a Dyna S and not just part of a Dyna III ? How old is the Dyna? Did you purchase it yourself, or did it come with the motor?

Also, on the white/red wire from the engine, is it possible it's light green/red? That would make it the neutral switch wire.

I circled the wires which get tied together for the charging system. Each yellow from the rectifier goes to one black from the stator, and one of the colors from the regulator (pink, blue, yellow). It shouldn't matter which color goes to which yellow.

Here's a link to the Suzuki instructions:
www.dynaonline.com/downloads/instruct/DS3-1_3-2.pdf
Notice the black wire is shown firing the 2-3 coil. On a KZ, black usually fires the 1-4 coil. You may have to call Dyna to find out exactly what you have.

I added the neutral light and oil pressure light in case you want them. Also, are you planning to use the starter? If so, you'll need some sort of starter solenoid. You don't need a KZ solenoid, most generic starter solenoids will work.

1977 1978 KZ1000 bare bones for Snerff

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EDIT 1/9/2019:
Mattylight Barebones Bare Bones Wiring Diagram
1977 -1978 Kawasaki Kz1000 dyna S for Snerff
Kz 1000
(This was the final version. Intermediate versions are lost.)

I,m not sure I said thank you for your work, so Thank You again. I will be working on it soon.

No problem. Good luck on it!

Hi, again, seems I do have one more question about the starter switch in the diagram. Normally the first position is off, second is power on and 3rd is momentary for the starter. Is it just an on off switch in your diagram or do I need a 3 position switch? Thanks again.

The starter button on KZ's is just a simple momentary push-button. The ignition switch in my diagram is a simple on-off toggle switch.

You could adapt a car-type ignition switch with momentary start-position if you want. I could show that in the diagram if that's the type of switch you plan to buy.

Thanks, I think I will use it as in your diagram. I sure wish you lived close to here.

i have a stock electronic ignition, could i just use the diagram for the dyna s for reference? Its an 82 kz750 n1.