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KZ440 Won't Start After Top End Rebuild 26 Jan 2019 22:04 #797659

  • loudhvx
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Jaytraeg wrote: Alright, I ran a few tests and this is what I found out.:
The primary winding resistance (resistance between the two power terminals on the coil) measured at 2.0 ohms, which is out of the usable range specified in the service manual (3.2-4.8 ohms)
The secondary winding resistance (resistance between the two spark plug wires) measured at 11.3k ohms, which is in range of the 10.4k-15.6k ohm usable limit.
I think this is enough to condemn the coil, so I'll get a new one ordered. On the Z1 website, it says that using a coil with a slightly higher resistance is better than using one of slightly lower resistance (which I'm assuming is referring to the spec for the primary winding resistance listed above), so I'm thinking about getting the 5 ohm Dyna coil they have.


3.2 to 4.8 ohms would be for points. Does your bike have a points ignition? I assumed all 440's had electronic ignition, but I could be mistaken.
If you have the factory electronic ignition you would want the 2.2 ohm gray Dyna coil or 2.3 ohm factory coil. A 3 ohm coil (Dyna green coil) would probably work as well, and that can be used with a Dyna S if you found a way to modify an inline-four Dyna S for the Kz440.

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KZ440 Won't Start After Top End Rebuild 27 Jan 2019 08:02 #797687

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Ah, you're right. I just noticed the supplemental content at the end of the service manual for the 1981+ 440's, and the usable range is 1.8-2.8 ohms for the transistor type (which mine is). Looks like it's still in the usable range for that, then. I'll take a page out of your book hvx and replace it anyway, because it does look like the original coil. Will report back with the results when the coil comes in.
1981 KZ440 LTD

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KZ440 Won't Start After Top End Rebuild 07 Feb 2019 19:26 #798335

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Alrighty, after the coil came in I had to wait to install it because it required different fittings for the spark plugs to connect.
So finally, after installing the new coil and fittings and new wires to boot... nothing. The bike still turns over, and it has a really strong blue spark, but it still refuses to so much as pop.
I'm really truly stumped and a little disheartened. The bike has good compression, good spark, good fuel, a freshly recharged battery and good air. I've tried starting it with the kickstand up, but that didn't help, nor did starting fluid. The pistons are moving up and down in the cylinders, and (as far as I can see) everything is in good working order. New oil, too.

Any ideas folks?
1981 KZ440 LTD

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KZ440 Won't Start After Top End Rebuild 07 Feb 2019 19:55 #798336

  • OldguyJoe
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Real headscratcher there.
After putting on my new coil, it took a few dozen kicks for it to come to life. I was getting disheartened too.
Do you have a starter, or is it kick-only? Hopefully the former.
Much luck.
1977 weird Canadian version of KZ400-s3
Had a 1973 Kawi 175 F3 trail bike in the 80s.

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KZ440 Won't Start After Top End Rebuild 07 Feb 2019 20:12 #798338

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Actually, it's electric only. I really wish I had a kick-starter, so that I could just go at it instead of wearing down the battery like no tomorrow.
Say Joe, do you know what kind of rhythm your spark plugs spark with? Now that I think about it, my sparks were kinda doing a dupple, heartbeat -esque pattern instead of the steady rhythm I would have expected. Is it supposed to be this sort of pattern?
1981 KZ440 LTD

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KZ440 Won't Start After Top End Rebuild 08 Feb 2019 16:01 #798369

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My plugs spark evenly. The 400 sparks at the same time in both cylinders, with pistions 180ยบ opposed, using a single coil with dual outputs. Same for you?
Does your bike have points or transistor ignition? There must be a way to check the igniter if it's the latter.
1977 weird Canadian version of KZ400-s3
Had a 1973 Kawi 175 F3 trail bike in the 80s.

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KZ440 Won't Start After Top End Rebuild 08 Feb 2019 18:42 #798370

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Now there's a thought.
From what I gather, the 400's and 440's are very closely related engines and should have the same crank angle. My bike is one that has the transistor ignition, so I went and resistance tested the igniter and found that it's pretty much trash (failed 5/6 tests). Any suggestions on where to find a replacement one?
Also, I resistance checked the pickup coil just for kicks and it was good.
1981 KZ440 LTD

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KZ440 Won't Start After Top End Rebuild 09 Feb 2019 07:05 #798385

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1] The KZ400/440 have 360* cranks.
2] Hw did you have a nice blue spark I the ignitor failed?
3] The KZ440 ignitor will be harder to find than the units used on the 4 cylinder models.
If a stock ignitor is unavailable the 4 cylinder can be spliced in. The pickup coil wires are paired up
red and yellow or blue and black. Or you can go retro and revert back to points which are more common.


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2002 ZRX1200R
81 GPz1100
79 KZ1000st daily ride
79 KZ1000mk2 prodject
78 KZ650sr
78 KZ650b
81 KZ750e
80 KZ750ltd
77 KZ400/440 cafe project
76 KZ400/440 Fuel Injected

www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=39120.0


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KZ440 Won't Start After Top End Rebuild 09 Feb 2019 14:56 #798403

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You're right, it would be strange that if the igniter is completely burnt out and the bike continued to produce a spark. My understanding was that igniters could gradually degrade, and at a certain point it would impede proper spark timing, but I very well could be wrong.
I wouldn't mind having a points set up, actually. Gives me more things that I could fix with adjustment than replacing modules. Would it make sense economically to convert to points instead of just replacing the igniter (if that is indeed the problem)? What components would I need to find in order to make that conversion?
Also, I have a used igniter in the mail from eBay, so I'll keep you all updated on how it goes. Thanks for the input!
1981 KZ440 LTD

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KZ440 Won't Start After Top End Rebuild 09 Feb 2019 16:19 #798409

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They can fail gradually but it is super rare. I've only seen it in units I was purposely stressing to failure.

For Jaytraeg:
Are you testing for spark in the actual spark gap at the plugs, or are you testing somewhere else in the path while the plugs are installed? I would try new plugs since they are cheap.

The double spark is something to look into. That should not be happening and might indicate the timing is way off. Can you post a very good photo of the pickup area in case something is amiss there?

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KZ440 Won't Start After Top End Rebuild 10 Feb 2019 09:56 #798434

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To test the spark plugs, I take one of the plugs out, reconnect it to the wire, ground it to the engine, and crank the engine while looking at the plug for spark. I'll go ahead and get my hands on some new spark plugs, since it can't hurt.
Here are some pictures of the timing assembly. It looks pretty close imo, but do you see anything I don't?
1981 KZ440 LTD
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KZ440 Won't Start After Top End Rebuild 10 Feb 2019 13:46 #798446

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Jaytraeg wrote: To test the spark plugs, I take one of the plugs out, reconnect it to the wire, ground it to the engine, and crank the engine while looking at the plug for spark. I'll go ahead and get my hands on some new spark plugs, since it can't hurt.
Here are some pictures of the timing assembly. It looks pretty close imo, but do you see anything I don't?

I don't see anything major wrong with it.
The gap between the rotor and the pickup seems a bit bigger than normal, but that could be the camera lens.
It appears to me that the rotor might be a bit retarded from spec, but without seeing the f mark lined up perfectly it's hard to say, and it's certainly not far off enough to prevent starting.

I assume you did not remove anything in that area so if it ran that way before, it should probably run that way again.
Sorry the photo effort didn't pan out something more substantial.

But it did make me still wonder about the double spark.
One thing that could cause the double spark is the excessive gap in the rotor-to-pickup distance, but another could be the wrong polarity of the pickup wiring, or faulty wiring.

When you did the engine work, did you remove the igniter or any associated wiring?

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