TOPIC:

It seems to be off a few teeth as even after I have the ex line flush with the surface the Z 5 is usually around after the 41/42 pin but before the 43/44 pin. I also know it's not tdc until the 1 n 4 cam lobes are facing opposite directions

ex

Z 5





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Also my contact breaker doesn't not have the little tab depicted in the manual. I've been rotating it to TDC by aligning the T in the sight hole with where I assume the tab should be.

Edit: I realized what I was looking at was in fact correct, false alarm
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Remember, the chain run at the top will not be straight when the cover is put back on. It will be pressed slightly downward by the guide in the cover (which is why you should not fully engage the chain tensioner until the cover is back on). With the chain straight at the top, the intake cam will be retarded a bit.

I am confused by your pin count. If you look at the drawing on my page, you will see that each pin in the chain gets its own number when counting. The EX line (when the crank is set to #1 TDC) points just to the bottom edge of a pin. That pin becomes the number 1 pin. You set the line of the Z/5 mark between pin numbers 43 and 44. If the chain is pushed down slightly at the top, the z/5 line lines up with the deck (with #1 at TDC and EX line still lined up). (Due to chain stretch, the EX line my point slightly above the deck.)

I had also removed the sparks a bit easier to turn the engine over , man were they black

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loudhvx wrote: Remember, the chain run at the top will not be straight when the cover is put back on. It will be pressed slightly downward by the guide in the cover (which is why you should not fully engage the chain tensioner until the cover is back on). With the chain straight at the top, the intake cam will be retarded a bit.

I am confused by your pin count. If you look at the drawing on my page, you will see that each pin in the chain gets its own number when counting. The EX line (when the crank is set to #1 TDC) points just to the bottom edge of a pin. That pin becomes the number 1 pin. You set the line of the Z/5 mark between pin numbers 43 and 44. If the chain is pushed down slightly at the top, the z/5 line lines up with the deck.

Ok, maybe I misinterpreted the diagram incorrectly I assumed that the Ex line must be pointing to a bottom pin as mine was pointing to a top pin. Thus my z 5 line fell between two links the 41/42 and the 43/44 not the 43/44 pins as shown.



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The EX line is cast into the sprocket. It can never do anything but line up with the bottom of a pin. The sprockets are all the same.





Here is how it should line up:

So in this scenario, I would count from the pin above where my ex is currently at?

The bottom pin above Ex would be considered pin 1

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Just to be clear; when you are setting the timing to the "T".... - You align the vertical line just beside the "T" with the case sight mark. It may be hard to see due to dirt and rusty ick that's built up over the years...
Also, when you get the time, that advance plate looks like it could use some love. clean and oil the advancer and make sure it's able to rotate easily.

Your photograph of the "first pin" on your camshaft is difficult to tell because of parallax view of your photo. What is important here is that you have the correct pin count and that you notice that chain is NOT directly straight from exhaust cam gear to intake cam gear but instead has a suble slope between the gears as loud's picture shows.
The PO may have jumped the chain or put it on skewed; who knows but having the correct timing marks (ignition and cam) aligned with the correct pin count between them is all that matters.

Mcren wrote:

Also my contact breaker doesn't not have the little tab depicted in the manual. I've been rotating it to TDC by aligning the T in the sight hole with where I assume the tab should be.

Edit: I realized what I was looking at was in fact correct, false alarm
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wrenchmonkey wrote: Just to be clear; when you are setting the timing to the "T".... - You align the vertical line just beside the "T" with the case sight mark. It may be hard to see due to dirt and rusty ick that's built up over the years...
Also, when you get the time, that advance plate looks like it could use some love. clean and oil the advancer and make sure it's able to rotate easily.

Your photograph of the "first pin" on your camshaft is difficult to tell because of parallax view of your photo. What is important here is that you have the correct pin count and that you notice that chain is NOT directly straight from exhaust cam gear to intake cam gear but instead has a suble slope between the gears as loud's picture shows.
The PO may have jumped the chain or put it on skewed; who knows but having the correct timing marks (ignition and cam) aligned with the correct pin count between them is all that matters.

Mcren wrote:

Also my contact breaker doesn't not have the little tab depicted in the manual. I've been rotating it to TDC by aligning the T in the sight hole with where I assume the tab should be.

Edit: I realized what I was looking at was in fact correct, false alarm
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Alright I was making the mistake and aligning the T itself with the case mark.

Here is a better photo hopefully, cam lobes 180 and chain slack in between cam sprockets. My ex mark points to a top pin and not a bottom pin unlike loudhvx diagram and my z 5 mark falls in between a link the 42 pin and 43 pin.






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Geez. This is way more difficult to explain from the keyboard than it is in person. I've been looking through some of my pictures from last February 22nd, 2016. At 8:52am thru 8:59am I took photographs of my camshafts, chain and timing setup as it was the first moment I had opened-up my 550a. I had never done valve lash checking or shim adjusting prior to these pictures.
Then I compared them to yours and noticed several similarities but also some significant differences I cannot explain. Of course the point at which your photographs were taken could be out-of-synch with the point of the camshaft pics but I don't know this. I had to look at the date/time stamps of my original pics to confirm.
Here's the pictures comparing your 550 to my 550.

Timing setup. Yours:


Timing setup. Mine:


I see that our ignitions are 180 degrees apart according to the lobe. Yours is pointing to the 2-3 side, while mine is pointing to the 1-4 side.
I cannot explain this.

Now pics of the exhaust camshaft gear.
Exhaust camshaft gear. Yours:


Exhaust camshaft gear. Mine:



Interestingly, I find there to be no difference! Even the oddly positioned "EX_" stamping pointing to the "top pin" of a chain link. So either this is normal or both our bikes had the same Previous Owner or workshop mechanic.

Finally, the cam chain. Yours:



Cam chain. Mine:


Here again, I don't see any significant differences even when I click on the picture and count the pins.
Things seem the same.
BUT THEN you have the cam chain pic above which shows the chain with a big droop between the gears... and that throws a wrench in the works for me because I see that your EX_ marking on exhaust cam is same as mine and the Z/5 marking on intake cam is same as mine - below the deck level -
(Edit) Here is your pic, for clarity:


HOWEVER,
the chain has a big droop between the gears in that pic...
There is a problem with that. I dunno what but I gotta assume that in fact one or both gears are out of synch and out of time (based on the timing pic you provided). It also occurred to me that possibly the chain had been previously stretched but I have no idea if that's the issue. I believe the manual lists a way to measure 20 links or something to check for chain stretch.

wrenchmonkey wrote: Geez. This is way more difficult to explain from the keyboard than it is in person. I've been looking through some of my pictures from last February 22nd, 2016. At 8:52am thru 8:59am I took photographs of my camshafts, chain and timing setup as it was the first moment I had opened-up my 550a. I had never done valve lash checking or shim adjusting prior to these pictures.
Then I compared them to yours and noticed several similarities but also some significant differences I cannot explain. Of course the point at which your photographs were taken could be out-of-synch with the point of the camshaft pics but I don't know this. I had to look at the date/time stamps of my original pics to confirm.
Here's the pictures comparing your 550 to my 550.

Timing setup. Yours:

Timing setup. Mine:

I see that our ignitions are 180 degrees apart according to the lobe. Yours is pointing to the 2-3 side, while mine is pointing to the 1-4 side.
I cannot explain this.

Now pics of the exhaust camshaft gear.
Exhaust camshaft gear. Yours:

Exhaust camshaft gear. Mine:

Interestingly, I find there to be no difference! Even the oddly positioned "EX_" stamping pointing to the "top pin" of a chain link. So either this is normal or both our bikes had the same Previous Owner or workshop mechanic.

Finally, the cam chain. Yours:

Cam chain. Mine:

Here again, I don't see any significant differences even when I click on the picture and count the pins.
Things seem the same.
BUT THEN you have the cam chain pic above which shows the chain with a big droop between the gears... and that throws a wrench in the works for me because I see that your EX_ marking on exhaust cam is same as mine and the Z/5 marking on intake cam is same as mine - below the deck level -
HOWEVER,
the chain has a big droop between the gears in that pic...
There is a problem with that. I dunno what but I gotta assume that in fact one or both gears are out of synch and out of time (based on the timing pic you provided). It also occurred to me that possibly the chain had been previously stretched but I have no idea if that's the issue. I believe the manual lists a way to measure 20 links or something to check for chain stretch.

My tdc pic the chain is drooping as it should however I don't have the F mark on the ignition plate to the right of the mark like yours.

If in fact I'm supposed to be counting from the pin above th ex mark I may have the required amount of pins in between..I'll do it over when I get home in the next hour or so. I appreciate you guys taking the extra time to help me out with this.

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Here was the pic I took while at tdc yesterday
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