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79KZ650 - timing 25 Jun 2014 07:19 #637949

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Now that my bike is together and running well, I want to go back and adjust the timing properly. About 3 months ago I opened up the cover and adjusted the points to generate spark but didn't really focus on the timing / points setting. The engine runs well, however I notice more exhaust on the left side and some unevenness at idle around 1000 RPMs. I figure starting with timing before carb syncing is a good idea.

I found this post this to be very helpful a few months ago.

I haven't seen any posts specific to the 650B3 and understand most points systems are similar across many of the bikes here on the forum. If someone can point me in the right direction or share the section of the service manual it will be much appreciated.

Attachment IMG_2450.jpg not found

'79 KZ650B3 (stock)
'79 KZ650B3 (parts bike)
'06 HD 883R
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79ZK650 - timing 25 Jun 2014 07:48 #637953

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The manual has several pages of instructions, pictures, etc. on how to set the timing using the static method plus timing light, plus dwell meter. I can give you a fairly easy way that will get you in a pretty close ballpark without a timing light or dwell meter, but you will need a 0.35 mm feeler gauge and a multi-meter or other device to test continuity. To be very precise, the timing light and dwell meter will be needed.

Before attempting to replace or adjust the points the following is important to understand; timing is comprised of two separate components, and BOTH of these components MUST be set properly if the engine is to run well:

--- The GAP - this is the distance the points spread apart when fully open. The GAP is the element that determines the DWELL. In essence, the DWELL is the number of degrees of points cam rotation that the points are closed and this controls the amount of time the coils receive a charge before firing the spark plugs.

--- The TIMING of the initial opening of the points (the point at which the continuity across the points breaks). This controls the precise instant that the coils receive the signal to fire the spark plugs.

Remove the points cover on the right side of engine. Under it you will see 2 sets of points. The set on the left fires cylinders 1 & 4; the set on the right fires 2 & 3. When replacing points observe carefully how the little bits and pieces are arranged where the wires attach. Some of those pieces are actually insulators and if you leave any of them out or put them back in the wrong place the points will be grounded and won't work. Take a very close look at the contact surfaces of the points. If they are pitted you really should replace them. You can sand down pitted points, but they will quickly pit again. Replace one set of points at a time so you can look at the other set in case you get the little bits confused.

Use a 17 mm wrench to turn the nut NEAR the end of the crankshaft clockwise while looking in the hole above that nut. (Do NOT use a wrench on the smaller bolt on the very end of the crankshaft to turn the engine.) Inside that hole you will see a vertical pointer cast into the casing. As you turn the 17 mm nut you will see a 1 & 4 and F and T roll by and then you'll see a 2 & 3 and F and T roll by. Each F and T has a line next to it.

Here's the method I use for static timing. I turn OFF the ignition. I disconnect the green wire near one coil and the black wire near the other coil. (This is not in the book, but it makes checking continuity much easier for me.) After installing the new points or cleaning up the old ones, turn the 17 mm nut while watching the points. When points set 1&4 are at their widest gap adjust them (by loosening the 2 screws that hold the points to the backplate) so the gap equals 0.35 mm. Turn the 17 mm nut clockwise through a full revolution again and double check this gap. Then repeat this for points set 3&4. Now set your meter to test continuity and clip one wire to the leaf spring on points set 1&4 and clip the other wire to ground. Turn the 17 mm nut clockwise until the 1&4 "F" mark aligns with the pointer mentioned above. You want the continuity across point set 1&4 to just break when the F mark aligns with the pointer. The idea is that when the continuity just fails is when the points will fire their respective coil and cylinders. In order to adjust the point at which continuity fails you loosen the 3 screws that hold the backplate to the engine and slightly turn the backplate until the meter shows a break in continuity. Once you have the 1&4 set timed properly you can check the 2&3 set to make sure they break when the 2&3 F mark aligns with the pointer (they should or something is not right). Don't forget to plug in the green and black coil wires when you are done, and put a little grease on the rubbing block felt. Assuming you are using new points of the correct type this should enable you to get the timing very close. Trying this with old points may give poor results, especially if the points are pitted and/or the rubbing blocks are worn.

After you have set the gap (which in effect sets the dwell) and the timing using the method above you can use a dwell meter and timing light to fine tune dwell and timing. If you have followed the above procedure carefully, very little if any fine tuning will be needed.
Sorry this is so long. It's not as difficult as it sounds. Ed
1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
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79KZ650 - timing 25 Jun 2014 12:53 #637976

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Understood... I'll give it a go this weekend (if I can wait that long).

Thank you
'79 KZ650B3 (stock)
'79 KZ650B3 (parts bike)
'06 HD 883R

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79KZ650 - timing 28 Jun 2014 07:38 #638256

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Work in progress. (changing the topic to screw removal)

Waiting on the BP Blaster to help out with 2 of the screws. I checked the gap and it is good from my previous adjustment a few months ago. The timing on the other hand is no where close. After moving around the pry points on the 1-4 side, set at the "F" mark, there is no continuity across the full range of the adjusting plate. Which leads me to the mounting plate and the magic of BP Blaster. The top screw is playing hard to get.

Seems like you need to get right in there to fully understand how it works, and it is simple. Just requires going back and forth on both sides until everything aligns.

Q: can I use white grease on the felt or is there something more specific to use?
'79 KZ650B3 (stock)
'79 KZ650B3 (parts bike)
'06 HD 883R

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79ZK650 - timing 28 Jun 2014 08:04 #638260

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There are special greases for the ignition cam and they can be bought online if not locally (see images below), but any grease is better than no grease.Ed

www.lufteknic.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc...gory_Code=lubricants

Attachment DistibutorCamGrease-Bosch.jpg not found



www.partstrain.com/store/?PN=4792&N=0

Attachment DistibutorCamGrease-Mallory.jpg not found

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
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79ZK650 - timing 28 Jun 2014 08:35 #638262

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Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
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79KZ650 - timing 28 Jun 2014 09:57 #638272

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Yes I did set the timing and everything is running much smoother. Ed, a big thanks for posting your take on setting the timing, it was clear as day.

The Dremel had to be used on 2 screw, the top screw on the mounting plate just didn't move and easily was damaged. I slot cut across the head for a large flat head screwdriver and it came right off. Also did that on one of the gap adjustment screws. Went with white grease on the felt (it was totally dry). Now onto carb sync with a home made manometer.

I'm already making a list of second pass maintenance for the winter or early next season;
  • new set of points and condensers (just because) and replacing those 2 screws
  • new ignition wires
  • new exhaust
'79 KZ650B3 (stock)
'79 KZ650B3 (parts bike)
'06 HD 883R

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79KZ650 - timing 28 Jun 2014 10:02 #638273

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BTW: I'm 3 weeks out for getting my motorcycle license, only carried a permit in another state. So my friend has been taking the bike out on the road for testing and so far everything is checking out just fine. Brakes and transmission are in good shape, electrical surprisingly good for a bike that sat for 12+ years, suspension is also good. May just see the highway this afternoon for the first time.
'79 KZ650B3 (stock)
'79 KZ650B3 (parts bike)
'06 HD 883R

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79ZK650 - timing 28 Jun 2014 14:40 #638301

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Am uncertain which style marks may be on the advancer at hand, but here are a few examples of the different style style markings.

Attachment advancerstyles.jpg not found









The FSM may include a pic showing the F mark aligned with the case mark.

Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
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79KZ650 - timing 29 Jun 2014 14:37 #638374

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The 79 KZ650 is the third one down with the 2 spring design.
'79 KZ650B3 (stock)
'79 KZ650B3 (parts bike)
'06 HD 883R
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79KZ650 - timing 29 Jun 2014 15:02 #638378

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Just a few comments from a guy that's never dealt with points and timing before but has enough experience with machines.

For less than $20 bucks a new set of points and condensers is the single best investment you can make on an old bike, especially if it hasn't run in a long time. Just buy the set from Z1 and install them without hesitation.

Timing is rather simple, hook up your meter and move everything around until both sets align at the proper "F" marks. It doesn't really matter where the pieces fall, as long as both sides read the same.

After timing is set correctly you may advance or delay the timing by rotating the mounting plate. Some folks do this with the engine running, note the highest rpm limit and back it down a notch. Going by rpm and sound. Over advancing the timing doesn't equate to more power, just more heat in most cases. On some older bikes due to wear, advancing will compensate for some power loss.

I left my timing at the "F" mark.

After I set the timing, the engine runs much smoother. However it started to backfire. At this point you should read the second paragraph again. I had checked the gap before adjusting the timing, ran the engine a few minutes and assumed the problem was something else.

This morning I was back in the garage, pulled the cover off again, started the engine and noticed the point arcing back to the plate pretty much in sync with the backfiring. I adjusted the gap at 2-3 once again and cleaned both points with Deoxit (used to clean electronic contacts like stereo knobs when they are scratchy). It got better but still could see arcing.

From what I know the condensers prevent the points from arcing after they send charge to the coil and spark plugs. I moved the wires connecting the points to the condensers and sure enough the arcing and the backfire went away.

Read the second paragraph again. My bike sat in a garage like shed for over 12 years, it's no surprise wires and contacts are not producing continuity. Although these wires look brand new they should be replaced as part of the points set.

I just order the points set, new ignition wires and my second set of new plugs. Although I have it running right with the OEM parts, it would only be a matter of time before I'm on the side of the road looking at points.

It's been a learning experience.
'79 KZ650B3 (stock)
'79 KZ650B3 (parts bike)
'06 HD 883R

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