TOPIC:

I did a little trouble shooting on the "stuck on" issue I have been having on my KZ1000 ST. The problem has been getting worse for sometime and now it is just stuck on unless I disconnect the Reg/Rec.

To help you to know what the facts are when it is stuck in its partially "on" condition (all conditions listed below are with the balance of the wiring connected as it should be):

• The aftermarket Reg/Rec was installed from Z1E in May 2008
• The engine turns off and you cannot start the bike in the off position.
• The only powered items when stuck are the horn, headlight, fron
  t running lights, oil light, high beam light, neutral light and brake light from either brake switch
• If you disconnect the ignition switch (including the separate Brown wire) it remains stuck on
• If I pull the white/red lead from the battery to the ignition switch at the "Y" connector, it remains stuck on
• If I disconnect every connector tied into the Brown lead coming from the Reg/Rec EXCEPT at the multi-connector that brings up the stator leads, it remains stuck on
• If I pull the stator multi-connector at the Reg/Rec everything goes dead like it should in key off
• If I pull the red/white lead from the battery to the Reg/Rec everything goes dead like it should in key off
• If I pull the stator connector down where it comes out of the engine with the oil and neutral leads all that goes dead are the oil & neutral lights like it should in key off
• If I leave the red/white lead unplugged from the Reg/Rec but leave the other red/white to the ignition switch plugged in and then turn the key on, the lights that are usually stuck on will turn on and off with the switch

I suspect but want to know if the Reg/Rec is the only thing that this could be? Once running the voltage at the battery is fine and likewise so it would seem to the lights, ignition and such.

If it is the Reg/Rec then what would kill it so fast? The only non-stock power pull would be the Halogen headlight I installed but I have it on a relayed circuit so positive power to it is on heavier gauge wire, other than that it has stock everything else except for Dyna coils (also on power relay).

Is there another source for a heavier duty Reg/Rec or is this about normal for aftermarket Reg/Rec's? Only put about 3-4k miles on this unit.

EDIT forgot to add the wiring diagram:

Some body here recently(last week?)had the same problem,seems the replaced regulator/rectifier was feeding voltage back on the small brown wire powering circuits not meant to be powered. It's supposed to "Sense" the voltage so the regulator/rectifier does nt overcharge the battery.

It sounds like the reg/rec is shorting brown wire to white/red wire, but I don't how you have the coil relay mod connected. I assume you are also using a Dyna S ignition?

Thanks for the replies! MFolks, I remember the other post but I didn't remember him solving it, I'll look that back up and re-read it. Loud, I'll see if I can find my wiring mod diagram for the coil relay mod, I'm not running a Dyna S, just the coils with stock ignition.

All of that convoluted unplugging and plugging was to isolate out any potential for a short in the harness. I did a lot more than what I noted above and at one point only had the Brown lead from the Reg/Rec connected to the running lights (front turn signals) and all other connections from the Reg/Rec disconnected plus no other power source from the battery to the harness and the lights were still on with the key in the off position.

When checking for voltage I was getting as much as 14.8 VDC with the bike off and checking some of the voltages at various points along the harness connections so I know the battery is good.

Is there another Rec/Reg option or should I just replace it with the same one from Z1E? Any ideas of what might cause one to fail like this?

Go to www.electrosport.com they have a troubleshooting page and sell rectifier/regulators.

Some other websites to try:
www.regulatorrectifier.com
www.ricksmotorsportselectrics.com
www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com (not sure they have stators)
www.accel-motorcycle.com/
www.tpe-usa.com/ (Tim Parrott Enterprises)

14.8v at battery bike off? What charging voltage are you seeing @4K RPM? It sounds like you are overcharging. At the Brown wire going into R/R what voltage do you have, compared to across Batt terminals? Voltage drop here will cause the R/R to put out the extra amount, overcharging the battery. Disconnect just the Brown at the R/R and with a test lead run it directly to the battery positive and retest Charging Voltage at Battery @4K R's.
If you think the R/R is causing your circuit to stay powered up, but otherwise is Regulating ok, try a Diode in the wire. Current won't be able to back flow then.

MFolks wrote: Go to www.electrosport.com they have a troubleshooting page and sell rectifier/regulators. I really appreciate that one!

Some other websites to try:
www.regulatorrectifier.com
www.ricksmotorsportselectrics.com
www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com (not sure they have stators)
www.accel-motorcycle.com/
www.tpe-usa.com/ (Tim Parrott Enterprises)

That Electrosport trouble shooting guide is one of the best I've ever read, thanks for that link!

The unit Electrosport sells is a different mfg from the one I have from Z1E, the regulatorrectifier.com one is the same one Z1E sells.

Ricksmotorsportselectrics.com appears to have been hacked and only has a you won pop-up scam on the front page, nothing else, no company banner/splash, just the typical scammer link.

Anyone had personal experience with the Electrosport R/R's?

Motor Head wrote: 14.8v at battery bike off? What charging voltage are you seeing @4K RPM? It sounds like you are overcharging. At the Brown wire going into R/R what voltage do you have, compared to across Batt terminals? Voltage drop here will cause the R/R to put out the extra amount, overcharging the battery. Disconnect just the Brown at the R/R and with a test lead run it directly to the battery positive and retest Charging Voltage at Battery @4K R's.
If you think the R/R is causing your circuit to stay powered up, but otherwise is Regulating ok, try a Diode in the wire. Current won't be able to back flow then.

Thanks for the tip, I'll have to wait until tonight after work and then recheck it with the better meter in my shop, I just used the cheapo one last night that I keep in a travel tool kit for when I go on these rally's and such. As usual I have too much stuff in my shop right now with the 550 up on the lift getting the carbs cleaned and rebuilt before I sell it, and the wife's Vulcan with the carbs part way out as I need to clean the carbs on it too prior to selling it too! Oh and the youngest son just filled one corner of it with his crap "just for a little while" 3 weeks ago!

I'm going to run the diode test on the R/R and do a check of the stator just for peace of mind. It's funny how that since I started fiddling with the wiring I've came across things that I want to re-route so getting to the connectors will be easier next time I have to, which I hope is never actually!

KZ_Rage wrote:

If I pull the red/white lead from the battery to the Reg/Rec everything goes dead like it should in key off

KZ_Rage wrote: ... at one point only had the Brown lead from the Reg/Rec connected to the running lights (front turn signals) and all other connections from the Reg/Rec disconnected plus no other power source from the battery to the harness and the lights were still on with the key in the off position.

Do those above statements contradict each other, or is there something I'm missing? If you pull the red/white wire (on the reg/rec) the bike goes dead with key off. But you also said if the red/white is disconnected, you still have power as long as the brown wire is connected. ... may need clarification on this ...

KZ_Rage wrote: When checking for voltage I was getting as much as 14.8 VDC with the bike off and checking some of the voltages at various points along the harness connections so I know the battery is good.

As Motorhead points out, this seems rather unlikely, unless it was just moments after the bike was shut off. Immediately after the bike is shut off, the voltage will usually drop into the 13's, then after a long time will settle around 12.9 or so.

KZ_Rage wrote: Is there another Rec/Reg option or should I just replace it with the same one from Z1E? Any ideas of what might cause one to fail like this?

Not sure of other options. I thought Rick's used to have one available at Dennis Kirk, but I haven't checked in years.


Also, I'm not 100% convinced it's the reg/rec yet, although it looks likely.

Run the bike with everything connected, then turn it off with the key only.
Then re-check the lights with the just pulling the red/white wire from the reg/rec.
Then reconnect it.
Then recheck with just pulling the brown wire off at the reg/rec.

With the stock diagram, if the reg/rec is problem, then pulling either one of them off should kill the power.

With the relay mod, I can't say for sure until I know for sure how it's wired.

loudhvx wrote:

KZ_Rage wrote:

If I pull the red/white lead from the battery to the Reg/Rec everything goes dead like it should in key off

KZ_Rage wrote: ... at one point only had the Brown lead from the Reg/Rec connected to the running lights (front turn signals) and all other connections from the Reg/Rec disconnected plus no other power source from the battery to the harness and the lights were still on with the key in the off position.

Do those above statements contradict each other, or is there something I'm missing? If you pull the red/white wire (on the reg/rec) the bike goes dead with key off. But you also said if the red/white is disconnected, you still have power as long as the brown wire is connected. ... may need clarification on this ...

Yeah, that's a bit confusing, I should have said that the white/red from the battery to the R/R was still connected just not the other one that goes from the "Y" to the ignition switch.

loudhvx wrote:

KZ_Rage wrote: When checking for voltage I was getting as much as 14.8 VDC with the bike off and checking some of the voltages at various points along the harness connections so I know the battery is good.

As Motorhead points out, this seems rather unlikely, unless it was just moments after the bike was shut off. Immediately after the bike is shut off, the voltage will usually drop into the 13's, then after a long time will settle around 12.9 or so.

I'll re-check that with the better meter and let you know.

loudhvx wrote:

KZ_Rage wrote: Is there another Rec/Reg option or should I just replace it with the same one from Z1E? Any ideas of what might cause one to fail like this?

Not sure of other options. I thought Rick's used to have one available at Dennis Kirk, but I haven't checked in years.


Also, I'm not 100% convinced it's the reg/rec yet, although it looks likely.

Run the bike with everything connected, then turn it off with the key only.
Then re-check the lights with the just pulling the red/white wire from the reg/rec.
Then reconnect it.
Then recheck with just pulling the brown wire off at the reg/rec.

With the stock diagram, if the reg/rec is problem, then pulling either one of them off should kill the power.

With the relay mod, I can't say for sure until I know for sure how it's wired.

I performed that check last night, if I pull the white/red to the R/R everything goes off, if I leave the white/red to the R/R connected and pull the Brown then again everything goes off.

As for the relay mod for powering the coils, I don't know if the diagram I posted above is that clear to read but with the Dyna coils I removed the resistor shown just prior to the coils. That is where I added the relay so that they are no longer power by current coming through the starter circuit but directly from the hot side of the battery, the starter circuit starting from the ignition switch through the yellow wire and gong to the Engine Stop Switch and then the constant passing red wire out of the Starter Button only powers the low side of the relay to actuate the relay when the ignition switch is on, which connects the direct from battery lead I installed to the pink coil wire. I don't see a pathway for current in this circuit to get to the Brown lead, not to mention I isolated the ignition switch out of the wiring as well as the ignition switches white/red supply wire with no change in the suck on part of the wiring tied to the Brown lead.

Anyones head hurting yet?

That Pink wire from the Battery to your Coil Mod relay, Fused? If not do so pronto!
If worried about the Coil mod powering said circuits, disconnect all sides of it and that would tell you.
Oregon motorcycles has R/R with a good Guarantee. Also you can get a new Kawasaki R/R assy, 6 wire and connect it. You have 3 yellow from the Stator to R/R or 2, 3 or single phase?

After the clarification, evidence is stronger for the Reg/Rec being the problem.

I'm really surprised this type of failure happens on that type of reg/rec. I would have thought the brown wire would have been better isolated from possible shorting to the white/red wire. There should be many devices that would have to fail before current could flow from the battery connection to the brown wire.

Perhaps they are actually using a 5-wire design and adding the brwon wire with just one isolating diode. That would explain the easy failure. If that is the case, there is actually a chance the reg/rec would work with the brown wire disconnected. Not recommended to run permanently that way, but a few simple tests would show if the hypothesis is correct. Just leave the brwon disconnected and run it while carefully watching the battery voltage. If it climbs over 15v, then it's not working. If it limits at 14.5 or so, then it's a 5-wire design disguised as a 6-wire (3-phase) reg/rec.

This would explain why some aftermarket reg/recs won't allow battery voltage to go super high even when pulling the brown wire.