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spark timing help! 14 Apr 2008 17:13 #206496

  • 1978rm125
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wellive been working on my 1978 kz200 for 4 years now. im starting to get fed up. every time theres a problem its due to electrical which i dont know much about. i just put in a new coil due to the last one which was dead. The condensor is new and the stator is good. it has spark. soo much it has it when i slowly turn it over. Now i need to time it. i dont know how to or where to. my hqaynes book tells me to set the stator aligned with the f mark. but idk what to do from there. i took off my breaker plate up top to see if my breaker was alright and it was. where do i set the points plate to since there is a circle with a line through it and further down is a three pointed section as well. on the head there is a line and further down is a block space....i need help on how to time it. thank you. it was running beutafully before the coil went bad. Only has 3500 miles so dont want to get rid of it. thanx

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spark timing help! 15 Apr 2008 09:28 #206661

  • bountyhunter
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I think you can connect an OHM meter across the points and watch for continuity. Slowly turn the crankshaft with a wrench and watch as the F mark approaches, I think the points should open (go to open circuit on the meter) when the crank is at the F mark. Not dead sure if the correct mark is F or T for this on your engine, but there should be a mark to align with that should get it running good enough to use the timing light afterwards.

You really need a manual for your bike, you can probably get one for maybe $10 - $20.
1979 KZ-750 Twin

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spark timing help! 15 Apr 2008 14:13 #206715

  • 1978rm125
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um i a manual thankxs. its a haynes. theres a static way to time it. but im talking on the camshaft drivin points. see no one knows how to time my bike. jeez you need a darn rocket scientist to work on these ancient things. when i kick it over it flutters and backfires and sometimes farts out of the carb. idk. i need to TIME it!. idk where to move the points plate. theres several places to move it but idk which timing mark to use.

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spark timing help! 15 Apr 2008 16:35 #206740

  • Patton
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1978rm125 wrote:

... need to TIME it!...


Here's some generic advice.

First clean points and set the "gap" between them BEFORE addressing the ignition timing.

The "bulb" or "ohm meter" method of timing (called "static" timing) gives a decent ball-park adjustment, but a strobe-type timing light ("dynamic" timing) allows actually seeing the timing marks line up while the engine is running, and actually watching the advancer unit in action as it forwards and retards the timing while blipping the throttle.


If same or similar to 900's, here's some detail ---

The points set itself is held to a small back plate by two screws. The screw at the heel end of the points serves as a pivot. The screw at the contacts end of the points is through a slotted hole which allows the points gap to be set. The gap setting is the prescribed maximum distance between the points when the fiber heel is atop the highest rise on the cam surface. An accurate gap requires clean smooth unpitted contact surfaces. Usually there's a small felt tab touching the cam surface. A drop of oil on the felt lubes the fiber heel moving against the cam surface so as to help keep the fiber heel from wearing out so fast. Gradual wearing away of the fiber heel reduces the gap, so the gap must be periodically re-adjusted. The gap alone has some influence on the subsequent actual advancement or retarding of the ignition timing.

The small back plate (to which the points are attached) attaches by two screws through slotted holes to the large round mounting plate. The two slots in the smaller backing plate allow the points to be precisely set in a position whereby they open exactly at the prescribed moment before the piston reaches the top of its stroke (top dead center), which is where the F mark on the advancer unit should align with the permanent mark on the engine case. Ignore the T mark as the T mark is not used in ignition timing. Recall here that opening of the points is what triggers the coil to fire the sparkplug. This alignment of the F mark with the engine case mark is viewed at low idle speed rpm with a strobe light (dynamic timing). In static timing (engine off), the points should open just as the F mark reaches alignment with the engine case mark. This is determined by hand turning the crank and using an ohmmeter or light bulb connection to show when the points first begin to open. These two slots usually allow enough back and forth movement to accurately set the ignition timing by aligning the marks. Remember, the gap has already been set and will remain the same while the ignition timing (advance/retard) is being adjusted by moving the points back and forth in the two slotted holes.

The large round mounting plate attaches by three screws through slotted holes to the engine case. If the previously mentioned two slots on the smaller backing plate fail to allow enough movement either way to align the F mark and engine case mark, then the large round mounting plate may itself be moved within its three slotted holes to a better position whereby the smaller backing plate may then be moved in its slotted holes to achieve the desired ignition timing position (alignment of F mark and engine case mark).


By the numbers ---

1st -- Adjust gap -- Turn crankshaft clockwise using wrench to widest points opening and adjust gap to specs (KZ900 is 0.3-0.4mm or .012-.016 inch). Slightly loosen the two base screws which allows movement to open or close gap, then retighten after setting gap at its widest position when the heel is resting on the highest part of the cam. At this stage nothing but the gap has been adjusted. But this is important because proper gap does affect accuracy of the subsequent timing procedure. And all other screws have so far remained tight.

2nd -- Set Timing -- The points set has two mounting screws in two slotted holes with pry slots which can be used with strobe light (after slightly loosening the two mounting screws) to align the F mark with the permanent engine case timing mark. But if the adjusting plate doesn't travel far enough to allow correct adjustment, then loosen the three large round mounting plate screws and move the mounting plate as necessary -- and is this doesn't suffice, something is likely wrong in the assembly, as it did not arrive in such condition from the factory.

3rd -- Tighten and recheck --Tighten all screws and recheck timing with strobe light.

Also, check to assure proper operation of the advancer unit. If removed for cleaning and lubing, be sure the cam unit is replaced correctly and not 180 degrees off.

Also good to have a fan blowing onto the running engine cylinder while setting the timing.

Good Luck!
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

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Last edit: by Patton.

spark timing help! 16 Apr 2008 09:24 #206888

  • Qdude
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Nice post.
77 KZ 650 C1.
77 KZ 650 C1.
Crashed-Repaired, Pods, Kerker pipe, re-wired core bundle, lamp upgraded, homemade rectifier, solid state regulator , Dyna-s ignition, repainted, slightly modified, year-round commuter
Honda Metro 85 mpg Scooter. Dont laugh I will throw it at you

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spark timing help! 16 Apr 2008 12:20 #206921

  • wiredgeorge
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1. clean / gap points
2. buy a dynamic timing light at the autoparts store
3. put your pickup clip on the spark plug wire
4. put your power lead clips on the battery terminals - red will go on POS and black on NEG
5. Remove your points cover
6. loosen the 3 M5 slotted screws that retain the points backing plate
7. start bike (helps to warm it up and make sure it is off choke)and allow it to idle
7. Hold the strobe timing light on the mark on your engine case and observe its relationship to the T mark on the mechanical timing advance
8. Turn plate till the T mark and mark on your case align
9. Shut off engine and tight the 3 M5 screws
10. Start engine again and hold the strobe timing light on the T mark and mark on the case and ensure they are still aligned. If they are not, repeat the timing process. If they are, rev the engine to 4K rpm while still observing the mark on the case and the T on the advance. The T should ROTATE. This is your mechanical advance rotating the ignition advance curve and is what you should expect. If you don't see a rotation, then remove the rotor part (there is a bolt on the end of the crank which must be removed plus a larger nut under the bolt for turning the engine). Remove the rotor and then remove the mechanical advance. Clean rust in the area where the rotor and advance fit over the crankshaft end and make sure the area is real clean. Then daub with dielectric grease to lubricate and reinstall. Check to ensure that the ignition is advancing again to verify advance operation.
wiredgeorge Motorcycle Carburetors
Mico TX
www.wgcarbs.com
Too many bikes to list!

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