TOPIC:

First let me give you all the facts about the bike and then please let me know what you think is going on here.

KZ1000E1 Shaft
Engine:
Good compression 135PSI pretty much on each cylinder
Valve clearance near minimum but still in spec.
Engine is stock, never opened
Exhaust is a MAC 4-1 slightly opened on the baffle
No air box, POD's

Carbs:
Just cleaned & rebuilt
VM28 pumpers (pumpers work perfect)
New Boots
New OEM float needles
Clips in the middle
117.5 mains
17.5 pilot
air screws 1-1/2 turns out
High performance Gast inline filter

Electrical:
Stock pickup coils
Stock electronic igniter
New Dyna green coils, (no stock resistor in line now)
New Dyna wires
New NGK plugs (std. heat range)
New AGM battery
All wiring completely re-done, connectors cleaned or replaced
Relay mod to direct power coils from battery
Relay mod for halogen headlight

OK here's the story, when I had 20 pilots in before the 17.5's the bike ran pretty well but I could smell gas pretty strong and could not get the idle to adjust. It would idle at 1500 rpm with the adjuster all the way out. The bike would fly but would need very little throttle to cruise at 60mph. Sounds like a simple case of jetting being off but...

Pulled the plugs and found #1,2 & 4 plugs to be "fluffy black", not wet gunky fuel dripping but a powdery black that coated the insulators and everything inside the chamber. Number 3 plug was normal, looked pretty darn close to what I'd expect to see if things were the way they should be. (Remember the carbs are all set up the same.)

So I cleaned the plugs, rechecked the gaps, pulled the carbs, changed the pilots to 17.5's and tried it again.

Now it pops back through the carbs now and then. The exhaust will give a pop sometimes when I can get the rpm's up and then let off. If I keep gunning it I can just get above 5k on the tach, but it takes some work as it will not power up above 3k before it starts to bog and drop. Unless I start gunning it or pull the choke on the engine will die. It will start right back up and do it all over again. With the choke on it will run at around 3k all by itself but still bogs if you try to go above 4500.

Pulled the plugs and they were exactly like they were before when the 20's were in, fluffy black except #3. I waited a day and went back at the problem and the battery seemed OK as the headlights and everything were bright but as soon as I hit the starter it bottomed out. The 79 E1 has a kicker on it so I kicked it and it started on one kick.

Next I went through and checked the stator, not shorted but didn't run the output test since I got 14VDC at the battery when the bike was running. Checked the rectifier and it was showing the proper resistance based on the vague FSM specs. Since the regulator test is a bit more involved with tying 3 batteries together and a specific wattage light bulb, I opted to check the voltage at the battery while the bike was running.

The battery shows 12VDC with the key off or with the key on. (Note: I have the halogen headlight set up on two relays powered through a single inline spade fuse so I removed the fuse to take the headlight out of the equation.)
I checked the voltage at the coil terminals and it was just a hair off 12VDC with the key on (they're also on a direct power relay).

Here's what I don't think is right. When I started the bike I rechecked the voltage at the coil terminal (green and black) and the frame ground. It was a low 8-9VDC. I rechecked the battery and at the terminals it showed about 14VDC with the bike running at idle and all the way up to 4k on the tach.

I can see why it would not run well if the coils aren't getting the right supply voltage from the igniter but why did it run so well with the different pilots? Why does #3 run normal and the other 3 plugs gets fluffy carbon on them? All 4 exhaust headers at the first elbow showed around 250° so there is nearly equal combustion at some point in the rpm's or they would be hot and cold compared to each other.

I have another igniter that I just tested and it passed the static bench test per the FSM's vague ohm resistance test (you have to have the Kaw tester to use their numbers so I look for equal results wire to wire per Kaw's suggestion). I will change that out tomorrow and see how the bike behaves and what the coil voltage is when it is running. I am a bit concerned about the regulator but it is sending voltage to the battery, but maybe too much?

Sorry this is so long but i hope the details help narrow it down for someone as I'm lost here and can't see the forest for the tree's! I just know that voltage doesn't seem right, unless I'm measuring it the wrong way?

The green wire from coil to igniter, and black wire from coil to igniter will show what you mentioned... about 2/3 of battery voltage on electronic ignition models. On points models it should be about 1/2 of battery voltage. On Dyna-S ignitions it may be as low as 10% of battery voltage.

It's not a steady voltage, but the voltage is turning on-and-off very quickly so the meter reads a lower voltage.

As far as the rest goes, you'll need someone more familiar with 1000 carbs.

Thanks!

Then I guess the igniter is working as it should, that's both good to hear and frustrating as it is directing back to air/fuel.

I do have one other wiring question though, on the Dyna coils does it matter which terminal the black and green are attached to?

KZ_Rage wrote:

Thanks!

Then I guess the igniter is working as it should, that's both good to hear and frustrating as it is directing back to air/fuel.

I do have one other wiring question though, on the Dyna coils does it matter which terminal the black and green are attached to?

It shouldn't matter, but on some coils I do see + and - labels. I never knew why they were there, but they work either way.

Should the regulator be holding 14VDC at the battery when the bike is just idling? It was hard to check but when I could get the engine up to above 4k on the tach I didn't see it it go up any more just stayed at 14VDC.

KZ_Rage wrote:

Should the regulator be holding 14VDC at the battery when the bike is just idling? It was hard to check but when I could get the engine up to above 4k on the tach I didn't see it it go up any more just stayed at 14VDC.

Depends on the current draw. The regulator should hold the voltage at about 14V anytime the revs are high enough that the alternator current can feed both the bike's electrical requirements and the battery charging current. With most engines, over 2K RPM will do it. At idle, the battery voltage dips a bit. Watch the headlights on your car and you may see they dim just a bit at idle, especially if you have the heater fan running or some other high current accessory. The dimming is due the system voltage sagging a little below 14V.

when you cleand the carbs, did you check the float levels, just wondering if they are a bit high and causing it to flood.

Bounty - It might have been closer to 12VDC at idle if I had left the headlight hooked into the system, I had it out of the circuit to reduce the load on the starting draw and to see if it helped at all if the problem had been electrical.

BSKZ - Tried to be sure they were equal and to the FSM spec.

I have another post on this in the carb section as it would seem the electricals are OK though I haven't checked the advancer yet.

Had similar problems on my 900 did the wired george coil mod put 12v dc to the coils and it cleared up all my spark plug problems even ran better.i was running electronic ignition from a 79 model with dyna coils.

Does it matter which coil the black wire goes to? The green wire? Sure.

You have two pickups. The RIGHT pickup is for 2/3 cylinder fire. This is the green wire out of the igniter. The green wire MUST go to the coil where the 2 and 3 plug wires are connected to the 2 and 3 plugs. Black wire comes off the left pickup coil and feeds the 1/4 coil where the wires must go to the 1 and 4 spark plugs. Check voltages at the OTHER lug on the coils... that is the pinkish wire or red or yellow/red. This is the wire powering the coil. Turn the ignition key on and put your POS multimeter probe on this lug and the NEG probe on the frame and measure the voltage. Let me know what you see.

Now, you have a problem with your reg/rec. At idle you should see 12.5 VDC at battery terminals. When you rev to 4K you should see about 14.5 VDC. If you have no variation and the reg/rec puts out 14 VDC at idle, you may want to buy a new one.

Last, jetting the 28 pumper carbs is problematic. The pump makes using larger pilot jets (17.5 or 20) rich off idle. I suspect the #3 pump nozzle isn't squirting. When I rejet the pumper carbs, I like to use #15 pilot jets (pods/pipes) and live with slightly hard starting because the pump makes the mix to rich coming off idle with larger pilot jets. I FREQUENTLY convert these pumper carbs to non-pump and for pods/pipes will jet #20 pilots, 4th slot on jet needle (if there are clip slots) and #115 mains. The pumper carbs run better and cleaner without the pump working but they will work if you stick with stock pilot jets... just not great with pods/pipes.

I probably wasn't clear on what I was asking, I know the green 2&3 and black 1&4 go to their own coil. What I wanted to know was if the pinkish wire was supposed to be on the inboard or outboard terminal on each coil. Mine are set up with the pinkish wire on the inboard terminal.

I already had checked the voltage and it is right at 12VDC at the coils. I've made a relay mod for direct power.

I have decided to hold off on any more tweaks on the carbs because I think I found my problem. It's that brand new AGM battery if I'm right. You know how the regulator was sending 14VDC to the battery? Well now I think I know why. The battery tanks as soon as any load is put on it. I had it charged on a 2 amp trickle charger then put a float charger on it to keep it up for the past couple of days. Tonight I went down to the shop and unhooked it from the float charger. Checked it with my digital VOM and it showed 12.88VDC. I turned the switch on and it dropped to 11.87VDC. Remember now that I have the headlight out of the circuit so there is no draw by the headlight right now.

I hit the starter button and nothing, the damn battery tanked. I put the meter on it and watched it plummet all the way to 4.11VDC! Turned off the key and the battery slowly climbed back up to 12.45VDC before stabilizing.

I put it back on the charger for about a 1/2 hour, checked it on the meter, right back at 12.88VDC. Next I pulled the hot lead off of the battery to check for a drain from a short or other wiring issue. Put the meter in between the hot terminal on the battery and the lead with it set to 10A range. Nothing. Turned the key on it and it drew about 4 amps. Turned off the key and started going through the lower ranges of amp draw and there was absolutely zero drain when the key was off.

My conclusion is that this Bike Master Platinum AGM battery has issues. I've had it for 3 months but most of the time it was left in the box until I had the bike ready to try.

Going to call Sport Tour tomorrow and see if they are going to stand behind this junk or what!

Yes, if you are measuring less than 10v on the battery terminals with no load, the new battery is defective.

If it goes to 4 v under load, and the main fuse does not pop (and it's only drawing 4 amps), the battery is defective.

Important that these voltage measurements are done directly on the battery terminals so any wiring problem won't be a factor.

Incidently, the Dyna S puts full current through at least one coil, and most likely two coils, whenever the ignition is on, so it will draw 3 to 8 amps (depending on your coil's ohms and if it's one or both) all the time when the motor is not running.

Hope you can get at least a prorated refund on the batt. But don't be surprised if they try to blame you for the damage.