TOPIC:

loudhvx wrote:

Well it's an option. Either the relay can power the igniter or the original yellow/red wire can power the igniter, but either way, you need to run power to the igniter.

My picture is drawn with Dyna Coils, but a regular KZ igniter, not a Dyna S. On WG's site I believe it's drawn for a Dyna S.

Thanks for the help loudhvx! I think what threw me off is the fact that it was shown on his site as going to the Dyna S and I didn't realize that with a factory electronic ignition it would be the same.

I'll wire it up that way. However, that doesn't explain why the IC Igniter resistance measurements I took came out bad. Do I in fact also have a bad IC Igniter?

Yeah, Bill's drawing, while showing more detail, doesn't really address electronic igniters, only the coil portion of the ignition.

As far as the igniter is concerned, I don't put too much weight on resistance checks of non-linear semi-conductors. They can be way off even though the device is fine. I usually use a test rig, but that gets involved. We'll just have to wait and see, and shoot it when the time comes.

Post edited by: loudhvx, at: 2008/02/17 22:11

I made a couple of minor changes to the drawing, but nothing important.

Does it matter where I get the power from? If I ran a wire directly from the battery to the yellow/red wire of the IC Igniter would it cause problems or should I just run it from the relay?

Relay would be better, but you can run it directly just for testing but make sure that you remove that ground from 87a to avoid any melted wires during testing.

Guess what loudhvx??

She fired right up!!! Woohoo!!!

I decided to run the power line from the relay over to the IC Igniter since I would ultimately have to do so anyway regardless of the IC Igniter's condition.

Oh man, she sounds soooo sweet! I haven't heard the girl pur since early December! Thanks so very much for the help!!!

About the IC Igniter and the resistance measurements...do you think its on its way out and thats why I got those values? Or like you said before, basically meaningless?

My question is (I'm not trying to be a smart a$$ here.): Why does Kaw tell you to test it that way if the results won't tell you whether its bad or not? I'd really like to understand what you are saying better.

Nice job!

The type of test they recommend is dependent on the test equipment. In other words if you use equipment different from what they have, you may get different results. Modern electronic meters behave differently from old analog meters when used improperly. In my opinion it is improper to use a ohm-meter to measure the resistance of transistors.

Bulbs, coils, resistors and other simple components are fine with ohm-meters, but transistors are more complex. They need to have power applied to be tested properly. If you have the exact same test equipment and test transistors that are made the same, you should get the same results. But what if the equipment is different, or more importantly, what if the manufacturer of the igniter changes the transistors they use? Well that's a major problem for a simple resistance check.

I don't think the makers of the igniters and regulators had anything to do with the writing of the repair manuals. Back then most people only had simple analog meters, so the writers of the manuals did the best they could to give a ballpark figure, but those figures can be way off for the reasons I stated. Essentially, igniters and regulators need to be tested in use to decide if they are working properly. That means a lot of knowledge and special equipment like oscopes are needed. For most people, it's much easier to just replace the part.

Luckily, for in-line four KZ's, there are tests that can be done which require no special tools, just a lot of time and swapping wires and flipping parts to isolate a flakey igniter.

Oh, and for future reference, in case you need an igniter, or want a slightly smoother igniter, here's the one I designed using GM parts. It's only about $40 to make. I assume you have a mechanical advancer. If not then this won't work.
www.geocities.com/loudgpz/GPZgmHEImod.html

Post edited by: loudhvx, at: 2008/02/18 01:35

Thanks for explaining that.

In the FSM there is a notation that says if you use a different tester than the one Kaw used, you'd get different results. I guess I figured that even if the numbers were a ballpark I'd at least see something similar and not nearly as far off as what I did. That is what made me nervous. Now that I've put so much time into her I'm a little over concerned I guess.

But, she seems to run fine. If I was having a problem with the IC Igniter, I'd know that something wasn't right, correct? For example; it would miss or run rough or something along those lines? If thats the case then I guess my igniter is OK. I only had it running long enough to warm up but that has to count for something. She does run better than before I did all the work on her though.

I wish ya'll could have seen the grin on my face when she fired right up...man oh man...

I know that feeling. There's nothing like the emotional roller coaster of something not working after so much work, then bam! It fires up!

As for the igniter, time will tell, but usually 2 cylinders will just suddenly go dead. It would be good to have a spare around. Old ebay ones are hit and miss. They are just as old as yours and may be in worse shape. If you ever have any extra cash and want to tinker, you could try that one in the link. At least it uses new, tried and true parts, and is relatively cheap.