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TOPIC: Float Level Check Tool

Float Level Check Tool 11 years 3 months ago #6801

  • BeeGee
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Kawasaki Part No. 57001-208 ... Fuel Level Gauge ... Does anyone know where this tool (or equivalent aftermarket) can be had? It is screwed into the drain plug of a float bowl to check the fuel level within that bowl. It works like a carpenter's liquid level.

If the part is obsolete and can not be obtained ... What are the thread specs on the drain plug? I'll make one myself. (1979 KZ650-D2 with Stock Mikuni VM24SS Carbs)

Post edited by: BeeGee, at: 2005/11/06 12:06
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Float Level Check Tool 11 years 3 months ago #6802

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BeeGee wrote:

Kawasaki Part No. 57001-208 ... Fuel Level Gauge ... Does anyone know where this tool (or equivalent aftermarket) can be had? It is screwed into the drain plug of a float bowl to check the fuel level within that bowl. It works like a carpenter's liquid level.

If the part is obsolete and can not be obtained ... What are the thread specs on the drain plug? I'll make one myself. (1979 KZ650-D2)


Here's a clever one that "Ibsen" put together:
kz400.com/RepairpicturesFrameset.html
(scroll down about 1/3 of the way)

This is basically what I hear most people do with small variations.

I was able to do it without a fitting at all. I have some rubber hose that just happens to be almost the exact size perfect for threading right into the hole...

Post edited by: biquetoast, at: 2005/11/06 11:50

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Float Level Check Tool 11 years 3 months ago #6851

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Thread size? Anyone have the 'thread size' of the drain plugs to the float bowls of Mikuni VM24SS carbs?

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Float Level Check Tool 11 years 3 months ago #6860

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The drain bolts are 6mm, pitch is .75 mm.

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Float Level Check Tool 10 years 1 month ago #107757

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OnkelB wrote:

The drain bolts are 6mm, pitch is .75 mm.

Does that mean .75 threads per mm or .75mm per thread?
Just curious.

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Float Level Check Tool 10 years 1 month ago #107758

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OnkelB wrote:

The drain bolts are 6mm, pitch is .75 mm.

Does that mean .75 threads per mm or .75mm per thread?
Just curious.

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Float Level Check Tool 10 years 1 month ago #107770

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Almost too simple to explain. Just follow Biquetoast's advice and use a clear plastic tube "threaded" into the float bowl drain screw hole. Forget about the thread size and all that. Just visit your local builder supply or hardware store and pick up a few one foot lengths of different size clear plastic tubing (outside diameter)so one of them will fit "thread" into the drain screw hole. If afraid to just eyeball it, then take a drain screw along with you to help with the sizing decisions. This isn't rocket science, and there's no way to harm the threads inside the float bowl with the plastic tubing.

Thread the tubing into the drain hole of an empty float bowl, hold it dead steady against the outside of float bowl, turn on the petcock and watch as the fuel simultaneously fills the float bowl and the plastic tube, and make note of the fuel level when it stops rising. The fuel level inside the float bowl and inside the plastic tube are identical (this is the Law of Gravity per Isaac N., or Boyles Law, or somebody).

If the tubing was allowed to move during this exercise, you screwed up -- no biggie -- just drain the float bowl and re-test.

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Float Level Check Tool 10 years 1 month ago #107794

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JimatMilkyWay wrote:

OnkelB wrote:

The drain bolts are 6mm, pitch is .75 mm.

Does that mean .75 threads per mm or .75mm per thread?
Just curious.

Patton wrote:

Almost too simple to explain. Just follow Biquetoast's advice and use a clear plastic tube "threaded" into the float bowl drain screw hole. Forget about the thread size and all that. Just visit your local builder supply or hardware store and pick up a few one foot lengths of different size clear plastic tubing (outside diameter)so one of them will fit "thread" into the drain screw hole. If afraid to just eyeball it, then take a drain screw along with you to help with the sizing decisions. This isn't rocket science, and there's no way to harm the threads inside the float bowl with the plastic tubing.

Thanks for the reply Patton. I am afraid that I failed to make myself clear. I have no problem either with sizing or threading the silicone tubing into the bowl drain port. I just like to know all kinds of useless stuff and I have simply never pondered the "unit of measure" for metric thread pitch. The reason I ask, is because it seems backward in one respect.
US std 1/4 - 20 bolts have twenty threads per inch. 1/4 - 32, for example has more threads per inch and is therefore fine thread.
Well, as I was studying the metric nuts 'n bolts at my local Ace Hardware, I saw that .75mm pitch is finer than 1.5mm pitch. Well if you "read" it as .75 threads per mm, then 1.5 threads per mm would be tighter together and therefore finer thread. And that ain't the case.
No reply necessary. I will ponder it a while longer. Maybe I have just had one, or two, or more too many Mountain Dews.

Post edited by: JimatMilkyWay, at: 2007/01/24 00:30

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Float Level Check Tool 10 years 1 month ago #107798

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.75mm pitch is finer than 1.5mm pitch.


And here is why:
THE METRIC THREAD DESIGNATION USES PITCH IN PLACE OF THE MORE FAMILIAR U.S.A. METHOD OF THREADS PER INCH. PITCH IS THE DISTANCE IN mm FROM ANY ONE POINT ON A THREAD TO A CORRESPONDING POINT ON THE NEXT THREAD, WHEN MEASURED PARALLEL TO ITS AXIS.
METRIC COARSE THREAD DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE PITCH SPECIFIED. THE ABSENCE OF THE PITCH SPECIFICATION INDICATES THAT THE THREAD WILL BE FROM THE COARSE THREAD SERIES.

Source quoted: Thread Identification

Does that clarify it? And now I know too!

Post edited by: pumps, at: 2007/01/24 00:58

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Float Level Check Tool 10 years 1 month ago #107801

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Yup
Oh, it clears it up alright, except that, if you think about it, you have to read the metrics as "mm per thread" or, Mathematically, since: T=threads mm=millimeters & in=inches then for US std we have T/in and with metrics it must be read mm/T. And like who the hell cares!
Good Night!!

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Float Level Check Tool 10 years 1 month ago #107812

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At risk of stating the obvious, a few wraps of tape dope around the end of the clear plastic tube may tighten the fit when "threading" it into the drain hole and thereby reduce or prevent any leaking while testing. But this should not be necessary.

Actually, a little leakage around the "thread" is immaterial to the measurement (if less than the volume of fuel running into the float bowl inside the carb).

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Float Level Check Tool 10 years 1 month ago #107844

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Patton wrote:

At risk of stating the obvious, a few wraps of tape dope around the end of the clear plastic tube may tighten the fit....

I got 'er sealed off with _no_ leaks last night. Anyone who is interested, try this. I took a scrap, 20cm, or so piece of clear tubing that was 8mm OD, then put a fast taper on it using a dremmel with a 20mm or so (not critical) grind stone. Then, with only a half twist to thread it into drain port, it didn't leak, plus it held/holds itself stationary.
I only had time to check the carb that I was sure leaked, but sure enough, the fuel level is exactly even with very top of float bowl, instead of 3 or 4mm below it.
The last thing I did before my beauty sleep was to run the overflow tubes from each carb into a separate cup to catch overflow fuel. Now, when I get home I will be able to check each one to see which has a problem.
If you do this procedure, be sure to put bike on center stand then chock/shim front wheel so bowl top is level.

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Float Level Check Tool 10 years 1 month ago #107867

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Good progress. Thanks for the report.

It's possible the float needle/seat is not completely closing when the float rises due to a speck of grit or other crud. Even with a perfectly adjusted float level, this condition could cause the float bowl to overflow with excess fuel passing out the overflow spigots. Another possibility would be a "leaking" float which would reduce the buoyancy of the float, or a "sticking" float. Or maybe the last person in there simply mis-adjusted the float tab. Seems there should be some logical reason for the float to evolve out of adjustment besides mere use and the passage of time.

But notwithstanding the above let's say after a good cleaning, the float level needs to be adjusted. Be careful and deliberate when bending the float tab because a minuscule change in the tab often results in a larger than expected difference in float level.

Checking the service float level is at this point with the freshly cleaned cars assembled and detached from the engine (probably on the work bench or an outside work table).

Might require several tiny precise tab bendings before finding the perfect float level, with each test requiring removal and replacement of the float bowl.

Here's a time and effort saving hint lifted from the chronicles of Wired George -- for testing purposes, only one of the four float bowl screws is sufficient to hold the float bowl in place (without needing the other screws).

Remember of course to replace all four float bowl screws on each carb before attaching the carbs to the engine.

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Float Level Check Tool 10 years 1 month ago #107907

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Patton wrote:

Good progress. Thanks for the report....

Good progress my left toe! Good progress would have been ripping down the road before midnight last night.

....It's possible the float needle/seat is not completely closing when the float rises due to a speck of grit or other crud. Even with a perfectly adjusted float level, this condition could cause the float bowl to overflow with excess fuel passing out the overflow spigots. Another possibility would be a "leaking" float which would reduce the buoyancy of the float, or a "sticking" float. Or maybe the last person in there simply mis-adjusted the float tab. Seems there should be some logical reason for the float to evolve out of adjustment besides mere use and the passage of time....

I have only put 250 to 350 miles on it since I bought it and the guy who sold it to me only had it a few months. I think he bought it with the carbs freshly built and they appear super clean. I think they were just not set up quite right. The jets may be wrong as well, as he changed them.

....But notwithstanding the above let's say after a good cleaning, the float level needs to be adjusted. Be careful and deliberate when bending the float tab because a minuscule change in the tab often results in a larger than expected difference in float level.

Checking the service float level is at this point with the freshly cleaned cars assembled and detached from the engine (probably on the work bench or an outside work table).

Might require several tiny precise tab bendings before finding the perfect float level, with each test requiring removal and replacement of the float bowl.

Here's a time and effort saving hint lifted from the chronicles of Wired George -- for testing purposes, only one of the four float bowl screws is sufficient to hold the float bowl in place (without needing the other screws).

Remember of course to replace all four float bowl screws on each carb before attaching the carbs to the engine.

All good tips, especially the time saver about using one bowl screw to check level.

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Float Level Check Tool 10 years 1 month ago #107909

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Patton wrote:

Good progress. Thanks for the report....

Good progress my left toe! Good progress would have been ripping down the road before midnight last night.

....It's possible the float needle/seat is not completely closing when the float rises due to a speck of grit or other crud. Even with a perfectly adjusted float level, this condition could cause the float bowl to overflow with excess fuel passing out the overflow spigots. Another possibility would be a "leaking" float which would reduce the buoyancy of the float, or a "sticking" float. Or maybe the last person in there simply mis-adjusted the float tab. Seems there should be some logical reason for the float to evolve out of adjustment besides mere use and the passage of time....

I have only put 250 to 350 miles on it since I bought it and the guy who sold it to me only had it a few months. I think he bought it with the carbs freshly built and they appear super clean. I think they were just not set up quite right. The jets may be wrong as well, as he changed them.

....But notwithstanding the above let's say after a good cleaning, the float level needs to be adjusted. Be careful and deliberate when bending the float tab because a minuscule change in the tab often results in a larger than expected difference in float level.

Checking the service float level is at this point with the freshly cleaned cars assembled and detached from the engine (probably on the work bench or an outside work table).

Might require several tiny precise tab bendings before finding the perfect float level, with each test requiring removal and replacement of the float bowl.

Here's a time and effort saving hint lifted from the chronicles of Wired George -- for testing purposes, only one of the four float bowl screws is sufficient to hold the float bowl in place (without needing the other screws).

Remember of course to replace all four float bowl screws on each carb before attaching the carbs to the engine.

All good tips, especially the time saver about using one bowl screw to check level.

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Float Level Check Tool 10 years 1 month ago #107910

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Patton wrote:

At risk of stating the obvious, a few wraps of tape dope around the end of the clear plastic tube may tighten the fit....

I got 'er sealed off with _no_ leaks last night. Anyone who is interested, try this. I took a scrap, 20cm, or so piece of clear tubing that was 8mm OD, then put a fast taper on it using a dremmel with a 20mm or so (not critical) grind stone. Then, with only a half twist to thread it into drain port, it didn't leak, plus it held/holds itself stationary.
I only had time to check the carb that I was sure leaked, but sure enough, the fuel level is exactly even with very top of float bowl, instead of 3 or 4mm below it.
The last thing I did before my beauty sleep was to run the overflow tubes from each carb into a separate cup to catch overflow fuel. Now, when I get home I will be able to check each one to see which has a problem.
If you do this procedure, be sure to put bike on center stand then chock/shim front wheel so bowl top is level.

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Float Level Check Tool 9 years 11 months ago #116660

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Sounds simple enough. So what's this thing for?

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Float Level Check Tool 9 years 11 months ago #116661

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Sounds simple enough. So what's this thing for?

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---- 9 years 11 months ago #116680

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----

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