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gpz 550 cams in a kz550 or zr550? 19 Dec 2017 19:49 #776384

  • CoreyClough
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No offence to you, but I see they didn’t run the Dyno at a high enough to show peak up. Where the red ends, it is still climbing. Bet it makes more on top at a little higher.

Glad you got to compare, and are happy with your results. I’d see if you can send them your carb settings to add that to your results.
'85 GPz550(ZX550-A2)

GPz550 Base Manual --> tinyurl.com/ze5b3qo
GPz550 Supplement Manual --> tinyurl.com/h34d2o6
GPz550.com --> www.nwsca.com/scripts/gpz_forum_2005/default.asp
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Last edit: by CoreyClough.

gpz 550 cams in a kz550 or zr550? 19 Dec 2017 22:39 #776388

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Thanks Corey, and thanks again for the cams to do the experiment!
I think you're right, probably had a little more hp before it dipped, though I don't know if I'd want to push it more. It was already 1K over the 10K redline when they stopped the dyno run.
Interesting that max torque didn't change much, from 28.1 to 28.7 (2%) vs the 7% increase in horsepower.
I would like to shift the powerband down a bit, otherwise I'm going to spend too much time going too fast chasing the 9-10K rpm sweet spot. I'm pretty sure that contributed to the death of a poor squirrel during my last ride.
1990 Zephyr zr550 B1
Factory Pro Stage 1 jet kit
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SPII ignition system
Kerker stainless steel race exhaust with 1.5" competition baffle
K&N Air Filter...

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gpz 550 cams in a kz550 or zr550? 20 Dec 2017 04:01 #776392

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Missing from the graphs are the air/fuel "mean" or ideal line. Maybe I can't see it? Dyno Jet has an ideal air fuel line at 13.2. I know the Factory Pro is different in their readings, and how power is read. What is their ideal air/fuel?

Could you list your current carb settings for the Factory Pro Kit in your CV30 Carbs:
Main Jet
Pilot Jet
Needle and clip setting with/without shims(starting from the top)
Float height
Mixture screw settings

Thank you!

We all have not doubt seen Factory Pro's CV Carb Tuning Guide, but for reference, here it is:
www.factorypro.com/tech/tech_tuning_proc...igh_rpm_engines.html

EDITED:

Thanks Corey, and thanks again for the cams to do the experiment!


You are welcome! As I said before, anytime you want to change back to the ZR Cams, I will be more than glad to assist you in my garage. If you will eventually go 615, with other cams spare cam gears you have, it would be good to think about having them slotted.

I think you're right, probably had a little more hp before it dipped, though I don't know if I'd want to push it more. It was already 1K over the 10K redline when they stopped the dyno run.

Yes, they should have kept going with the running past the red line on the tach. You should know at least where it peaks. It's like the letter "o" that isn't closed completely, so it is a "u". LOL!!!
'85 GPz550(ZX550-A2)

GPz550 Base Manual --> tinyurl.com/ze5b3qo
GPz550 Supplement Manual --> tinyurl.com/h34d2o6
GPz550.com --> www.nwsca.com/scripts/gpz_forum_2005/default.asp
First Race Win GPz550 --> tinyurl.com/o5y3ftp

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Last edit: by CoreyClough.

gpz 550 cams in a kz550 or zr550? 20 Dec 2017 08:16 #776401

  • loudhvx
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double post

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gpz 550 cams in a kz550 or zr550? 20 Dec 2017 08:19 #776402

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When I use a wideband AFR and let the RPMs go to redline, my target AFR is about 13.0 . My butt notices maybe a tad more power if I go slightly leaner, like 13.2, maybe even 13.5, but then you're heading for danger. The goal is to have the AFR sweep through the 12's as the RPMs increase.

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gpz 550 cams in a kz550 or zr550? 21 Dec 2017 09:02 #776458

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CoreyClough wrote: Could you list your current carb settings for the Factory Pro Kit in your CV30 Carbs:
Main Jet
Pilot Jet
Needle and clip setting with/without shims(starting from the top)
Float height
Mixture screw settings


These are my current settings:

Main Jet = 112 for carbs #1,4, 115 for carbs #2,3
Pilot Jet = 35
Needle = 0968h-66u, /2 clip position with 2 washers above clip
Float height = 17mm
Mixture Screw = 3 turns out

CoreyClough wrote: Missing from the graphs are the air/fuel "mean" or ideal line. Maybe I can't see it? Dyno Jet has an ideal air fuel line at 13.2. I know the Factory Pro is different in their readings, and how power is read. What is their ideal air/fuel?


The only gas-related line in the graph is the CO%/acc line, which is a measure of partially burned fuel. I'm not sure there's an "ideal", I think we'd want it as low as possible but each engine will have a different baseline efficiency. All the advice they've given me so far seems to be aimed at making the line as low and flat as possible. I asked Marc for more info on how to interpret the line - will report back.

We do have additional gas measurements in the charts, though it looks like NOx is missing in the most recent dyno (unless it was really 0 which seems hard to believe). Each gas is an indication of a different aspect of the burning process. Here's a little excerpt I found online about using a 4 gas analyzer -

If not AFR, what? We use a 4 gas exhaust analyzer to tune the engine. When fuel is burned it is a chemical reaction. The chemical reaction gives off by-products, these are the emission. CO, CO2, HC and O2 are all emission in the exhaust gasses. AFR only looks at the O2, the least important in the equation. Carbon Monoxide, CO, is partially burned fuel. Carbon Dioxide, CO2 is fully burned fuel. Hydrocarbons, HC is raw unburned fuel. Oxygen, O2 is left over that isn't used in the combustion process. In a perfect world all the O2 is combined with all the HC during the combustion process, this doesn't happen. We use a high speed 4 gas analyzer to look at the exhaust gasses and then adjust for a proper burn. The gasses tell us how the timing is, if there is too much or too little fuel for the amount of oxygen available etc.
1990 Zephyr zr550 B1
Factory Pro Stage 1 jet kit
zx550 cams
SPII ignition system
Kerker stainless steel race exhaust with 1.5" competition baffle
K&N Air Filter...

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gpz 550 cams in a kz550 or zr550? 21 Dec 2017 09:49 #776460

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Yes, there are some assumptions you have to make when tuning with only an o2 sensor.

For instance, if your mixture is so rich that it doesn't burn, then there will be a lot of o2 in the exhaust. This makes the AFR appear to be very lean... the opposite of what is really happening. Also, if you have a misfire from an ignition system problem, you will get hesitations which will indicate as very-lean. So you might think you have a fuel problem, when in fact it's something else.

But if you work with a wideband system you will eventually be able to determine these false inditations for what they are. After tuning a few bikes with the wideband, you will wonder how you ever lived without one.

So even though AFR is a single, maybe simplistic, indicator, it is still extremely useful, and with experience it's all you really need for carbs. The only real downside is if you only use one sensor. Then you have to make sure all four cylinders and carbs are working the same. 4 sensors would be ideal, but the wiring could get a little cumbersome.

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gpz 550 cams in a kz550 or zr550? 21 Dec 2017 12:01 #776466

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Zaddict wrote:
These are my current settings:

Main Jet = 112 for carbs #1,4, 115 for carbs #2,3
Pilot Jet = 35
Needle = 0968h-66u, /2 clip position with 2 washers above clip
Float height = 17mm
Mixture Screw = 3 turns out


Those are the same exact settings that I am using, but I am still using the stock main jets as instructed by the Factory Pro setup sheet.
#108 (1&4)
#110 (2&3)

But since you are using a freer flowing exhaust, I would have figured that the #112-115 jets would be needed. But apparently not....very weird.

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Last edit: by Daftrusty.

gpz 550 cams in a kz550 or zr550? 21 Dec 2017 12:10 #776467

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Daftrusty wrote:

Zaddict wrote:
These are my current settings:

Main Jet = 112 for carbs #1,4, 115 for carbs #2,3
Pilot Jet = 35
Needle = 0968h-66u, /2 clip position with 2 washers above clip
Float height = 17mm
Mixture Screw = 3 turns out


Those are the same exact settings that I am using, but I am still using the stock main jets as instructed by the Factory Pro setup sheet.
#108 (1&4)
#110 (2&3)

But since you are using a freer flowing exhaust, I would have figured that the #112-115 jets would be needed. But apparently not....very weird.


Well, if I go down one size I'd be at #110 (1&4) and #112 (2&3), so it would be a little richer than stock setup. Though Raul suggested I go down 2 sizes, which would be the same as stock (#108 and #110). It is a little weird. Still not sure whether to take Marc or Raul's advice.
1990 Zephyr zr550 B1
Factory Pro Stage 1 jet kit
zx550 cams
SPII ignition system
Kerker stainless steel race exhaust with 1.5" competition baffle
K&N Air Filter...

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gpz 550 cams in a kz550 or zr550? 21 Dec 2017 12:38 #776468

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No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationAll of this seems correct as you are still running the stock air box, and stock pilot jets. I agree with Lou on the wideband, as Gary Bishop has been using the following on his 84 GPz550.


Side note: Different jetting would be used if you were tracking/racing this bike only. For the street, you are not running the engine as hard, nor do you have the throttle cranked open as much as you would on track, so tune it for the street.

Thanks Mark, for being the Guinea Pig on this experiment.

'85 GPz550(ZX550-A2)

GPz550 Base Manual --> tinyurl.com/ze5b3qo
GPz550 Supplement Manual --> tinyurl.com/h34d2o6
GPz550.com --> www.nwsca.com/scripts/gpz_forum_2005/default.asp
First Race Win GPz550 --> tinyurl.com/o5y3ftp
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gpz 550 cams in a kz550 or zr550? 21 Dec 2017 13:24 #776471

  • Daftrusty
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Zaddict wrote: Well, if I go down one size I'd be at #110 (1&4) and #112 (2&3), so it would be a little richer than stock setup. Though Raul suggested I go down 2 sizes, which would be the same as stock (#108 and #110). It is a little weird. Still not sure whether to take Marc or Raul's advice.


If it was me I would only go down one size, as it is better to run slightly rich than lean. But if you notice that when the engine is nice and rocket hot, that bursts of high rpm's getting onto the freeway dosen't pack the same punch as when cold. Then I would drop down to the stock jets.

But if according to Raul it is running really rich up top, maybe stock jets are the better bet.....remember that if you went to stock jets, you might have to raise your needle because as it is now (according to the dyno) it isn't running rich in the midrange and when you greatly reduce the main jet size, the reduced access to fuel will lean out your current needle settings.

But with carbs you are damned if you do, and damned if you don't. What ever choice you make, you will surely have to jimmy those carbs out from around the airbox boots just to fiddle with the jets a couple more times. ( with pods it took me 2 minutes tops to remove or re-install the carbs for jet changes. )

Thats not even getting into the dark art of setting the float height so the fuel level in the emulsion tubes will be "just right".
I just go with stock 17mm or what ever Factory Pro recommends.

Thats simply not something I will ever be able to figure out for myself.

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gpz 550 cams in a kz550 or zr550? 21 Dec 2017 22:36 #776479

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Here's another cool graphic that helps make sense of a lot of the things we've been talking about

1990 Zephyr zr550 B1
Factory Pro Stage 1 jet kit
zx550 cams
SPII ignition system
Kerker stainless steel race exhaust with 1.5" competition baffle
K&N Air Filter...
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