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Dyna s or no? 78 650 sr 23 Nov 2016 13:04 #748756

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Hello all. I'm a bit stumped on the dyna electronic conversion.
I've read about 1000 good things and a couple people saying the single phase magnetic rotor style 78 650s sometimes won't charge a battery?

I've got accel coils already and want to ditch the points but I don't want to go to a 3 phase electrical.

Should I be OK?

Also gonna be running a accel battery eliminator. Will no battery hurt the dyna?

Thanks in advance guys. U rock!
78 kz650 sr (ratty edition!)

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Dyna s or no? 78 650 sr 23 Nov 2016 13:21 #748759

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What's the charging like now?
Steve

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Dyna s or no? 78 650 sr 23 Nov 2016 19:20 #748796

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Even if it diminishes charging to some extent, getting rid of points makes it worth it. Most my miles on a 1978 KZ650 was using the Dyna3 which worked perfectly. I'm not sure charging problems were only Dyna-S or not. I never heard complaint of the Dyna3 so if it's still available you might consider it instead. My miles on the Dyna-S on a 1978 KZ650 amount to about 30,000 or so, and yes charging is pretty low, but it still worked ok for me. Getting rid of the points was the best thing ever in all my years. You won't see 14v charge, it will be more like 13v in you use a Dyna-S. No good obviously, but even at that it worked for me OK.
321,000 miles on KZ's that I can remember. Not going to see any more.

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Dyna s or no? 78 650 sr 24 Nov 2016 01:03 #748810

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Alright awesome. I won't stress about it. Not sure where I can get a dyna s 3. However the unit I was looking at was a ds-2 I believe.

The bike is charging good currently with the points on.

I will be running a battery eliminator (won't be using electric start anyway)
Do u guys think I'll have a problem running one of those with the dyna?
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Dyna s or no? 78 650 sr 24 Nov 2016 05:58 #748816

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I'm confused by all this talk about ignition systems and charging systems at the same time. These two systems operate independently as far as I'm aware. A better question might be whether or not a battery eliminator system will have enough juice to support a Dyna S. In response to that question I have no clue. A single phase charging system using a capacitor instead of battery seems like a risky endeavor if you ask me.

Edit: on further reflection a capacitor instead of a battery sounds like a risky endeavor period, unless the bike has a true CDI ignition system which generates it's own juice when kicking over the bike. And don't confuse a CDI system with an electronic ignition like the ignitor system such as those Kawasaki used on later year bikes (or a Dyna S). They are totally different.

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Dyna s or no? 78 650 sr 24 Nov 2016 08:15 #748833

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Ed, (Nessism), the Dyna S uses more power than the stock points ignition because of the extended dwell. That combined with 3 ohm coils can easily use more than double the power of what the stock ignition system used. Over the last 15+ years, there have been periodic posts of people with Dyna S ignitions, on single-phase Kz650's, who reported they could not get their batteries to charge. Going to a 3-phase system seemed to cure them. I suspect there was a run of marginal flywheel magnets that were strong enough to power a stock Kz650, but not one using the Dyna S. The same problem shows up on some Hondas as well.

It is not all 1-phase Kz650's, but only some. Lately we have seen the same issue on some 3-phase 750's as well.

I have been using a capacitor in place of the battery on one of my Kz550's for nearly 10 years without any troubles. It has a factory ignition. The ignition is efficient enough to allow me to use double the stock lighting. I use two 55w halogens instead of the single.

Rattyblack650,
The Dyna III (Dyna 3) is the old version of the Dyna S. It works basically the same, but uses a remote box instead of having everything under the points cover.

A capacitor (that is all a battery eliminator is) in place of the battery works fine on most Kz's that use a permanent magnet alternator, as long as the charging system is in good working order. But I don't know if the Dyna S would be a good candidate for going batteryless. The best option for going batteryless would be the factory electronic ignition from 81 to 83 ish. That uses less power than the points system, especially at startup, and it also works with 3-ohm coils.

If you do go batteryless, be aware you must disable the lights during startup, and must rev the motor before turning the lights on. I use an automatic light relay to shut the lights off every time the motor stops. (I use the starter button to trigger the lights to come on after the bike is running.)

You must also be sure the bike can start on one kick most of the time with the battery. Until the bike is tuned like that, I don't recommend going batteryless.

Also, if you use an aftermarket reg/rec, or later factory one, you must tie the sense (brown) wire to the output wire to prevent accidental over-voltage on the capacitor. They can't handle over-voltage like a battery can.

You will probably want a capacitor anywhere in the range of 5000 to 10,000 microfarad, and at least 50v.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nessism

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Last edit: by loudhvx.

Dyna s or no? 78 650 sr 24 Nov 2016 09:39 #748837

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Hum, I stand corrected. I suppose it makes sense that the one phase bikes have less margin in the charging system. It seems that Kawasaki charging systems are less powerful overall compared to some other bikes. I don't mean for that to sound like a negative, rather it's a positive in some ways. In the GS Suzuki world the stators burn out quite regularly because they make too much power, and the excess power is shunted back to the stator which burns it up. KZ bikes don't seem to have anywhere near the same level of problems.

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Dyna s or no? 78 650 sr 24 Nov 2016 12:29 #748843

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I agree, back when my buddies and I had a make-shift shop going, I don't recall having any Kz's in with charging problems. It was mostly Hondas, then some Yamaha's and maybe some 2-stroke Suzuki triples (we had a lot of those for some reason).

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Dyna s or no? 78 650 sr 24 Nov 2016 18:12 #748860

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Loudvhx the bike is tuned damn near proper and starts within two kicks. I'm thinking of paying the little extra money for the eliminator because it's built a little better than just a capacitor one may find at radio shack. What's my best option on a "waterproof" capacitor ?

After doing some research the Dyna may not be all its cracked up to be. May just stick with the points. Still a little up in the air on that one. I would definitely go with the Dyna s, as I'm looking for less wiring etc.

I will definitely be adding a on off switch for the headlight for less drop when starting.


I appreciate all the responses. Can never hurt to have more insight.

Also happy turkey day
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Dyna s or no? 78 650 sr 24 Nov 2016 21:38 #748867

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Most caps are already about as waterproof as a battery. Like a battery, the terminals are exposed. You could just add wires to the terminals (solder or screws) and then gob some 100% silicone on the metal parts. Don't use latex sealer, only 100% silicone. Some capacitors have a two-piece insulator on the very top. You could seal that too. Or you could just put the capacitor inside something that will protect against water splash.

My cap is just hanging under the seat, with no cover underneath. I added a second cap, which is not hooked up, as a spare, but have never needed it so far, but I have only ridden that bike in a few major rainstorms so far.



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Last edit: by loudhvx.

Dyna s or no? 78 650 sr 25 Nov 2016 02:39 #748871

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Ahhh love the lines on that bike. Very vintage muscle.
For some reason I was getting resistors confused with capacitors (pill shaped with flimsy wire leads.

Can I get one of those caps at a radio shack you think?
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Dyna s or no? 78 650 sr 25 Nov 2016 14:07 #748899

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No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationNo eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationNo eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationRadio Shack doesn't carry those. They are basically an industrial item.

Here's one on ebay, $20 :


Here's another, but I can't tell the physical dimension, $9 :


Here's another, $10

I'm sure there are other brands that might be cheaper.

The problem with ebay is that they could be pretty old stock. But for $10, I guess it's worth a chance. New from a supplier they are probably in the $30~$50 range.

It just uses normal screw terminals. You would connect it in place of the battery, but use smaller wires. Probably 14 ga should be fine. Be careful not to strip the screws, the threads might be aluminum.

Your stock reg/rec (4 wires) didn't use a sense line, but if you have a later one, or aftermarket, and it has a sense line (5 wires), make sure to tie the sense wire to the output wire.

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Last edit: by loudhvx.
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