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No headlight, 1984 ZN1100 LTD 21 Jan 2016 15:59 #707542

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I searched the forums and found nothing about this so here goes.

- no 12vdc at the headlight connector
- so I opened the fusebox (located behind the left side cover)
- there are three round silver what look to be relays next to all the fuses
- one of the relays has LIGHT printed on the side that faces outward towards the troublehooter

That sucker is buzzing like a bumblebee, sometimes a short bzzz, other times a longer bzzzzzzzz, completely random is the length and interval of this Light solenoid's buzzing, and it's continually happening -- yes, it's making a buzzing sound so loud, this Light solenoid, that I can hear the buzzing even when the engine's running if I'm near the solenoids/fuses panel there on the left side. LOUD! I've never heard a solenoid do that.

- I pulled the 10amp fuse for the headlight, its fine
- it's funny that there is a 10amp fuse for the headlight AND there is a solenoid for the headlight!
I have no idea why the headlight needs a solenoid switch, unless its to keep the headlight off until the bike is running like on the Kawasaki Vulcan 750s I've had.

- with the headlight fuse removed I started the bike and checked voltage on the light fuse's socket
- I see voltage there but it rises and falls erratically and it does so IN TIME WITH THE 'LIGHT' SOLENOID'S BUZZING!
- I swapped the turn signal and Light solenoids, after verifying they're the same solenoid (shown by the printed part number/identifier on the sides of the solenoid (I *think* it was the turn signal solenoid; there are 3 of these silver solenoids on the fuse panel, the other may have been the hazard lights solenoid). CHANGED NOTHING. And that means the "Light" solenoid is NOT THE PROBLEM.
- When I put the turn signal relay into the Light relay's socket (and by the way, the turnsignals work fine) -- IT STARTED BUZZING TOO.

The buzzing *may* be the switch inside the solenoid opening and closing very rapidly.

I don't have a manual or electrical diagram for the '84 ZN1100 so I'm stuck.

Any ideas?
1978 kz1000 A2 with Kerker
1980 Z1 Classic with Kerker

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Last edit: by newOld_kz1000.

No headlight, 1984 ZN1100 LTD 21 Jan 2016 17:01 #707544

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A relay is often used with a circuit like a headlight so you don't have to use thicker gauge wire to the switch. That circuit still needs a fuse too. All those components make fires less likely as an added feature. What condition is your bulb in?

Pictures?

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No headlight, 1984 ZN1100 LTD 21 Jan 2016 17:55 #707546

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New bulb.

The main symptom, the main reason *why* I"m not reading voltage at the headlight bulb socket inside the headlight bucket is this: as I mentioned, I removed the 10 amp headlight fuse to allow me to see if the fuse was getting any voltage, then I started the bike, and the voltage in the fuse socket was very intermittent.

I don't have a wiring diagram, and being desperate I searched and just found online a Kz1100 wiring diagram for a 1983 Kz1100 (my bike is a 1984 ZN1100 LTD).

The harness is different -- the Kz1100 only has a Turn Signal relay and a Hazard relay but no Light relay.

HOWEVER -- the Kz1100 diagram shows the headlight circuit being routed through a "Reserve Lighting Unit" and I did find a post on the board here about that.

So I'm wondering if my RLU is bad.

On the Kz1100 diagram, the power for the headlight seems to go from this Reserve Lighting Unit, through the Hi beam/Lo beam switch, then to the headlight.

But again there is this extra "LIGHT" relay on my fuse panel, just next to the Turn Signal and Hazard light relays, and the "LIGHT" relay is buzzing loudly and vibrating. I think the mechanical switch part inside this LIGHT relay is just opening and closing over and over and over, continuously.

Without seeing the 1984 Zn1100 wiring diagram, I won't be able to find out how this "LIGHT" relay is wired into the headlight circuit.
Because the Kz1100 schematic I've attached here does not have a LIGHT relay.
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No headlight, 1984 ZN1100 LTD 21 Jan 2016 18:07 #707547

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I have no idea how my thread ended up in 'Engine' -- if a Moderator reads this, can you move it to "Electrical"? I'm not sure how to do it, and I don't even know if I have the right authority/permissions to do it. Thanks for your help.
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No headlight, 1984 ZN1100 LTD 21 Jan 2016 19:28 #707552

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newOld_kz1000 wrote: I searched the forums and found nothing about this so here goes.

- no 12vdc at the headlight connector
- so I opened the fusebox (located behind the left side cover)
- there are three round silver what look to be relays next to all the fuses
- one of the relays has LIGHT printed on the side that faces outward towards the troublehooter

That sucker is buzzing like a bumblebee, sometimes a short bzzz, other times a longer bzzzzzzzz, completely random is the length and interval of this Light solenoid's buzzing, and it's continually happening -- yes, it's making a buzzing sound so loud, this Light solenoid, that I can hear the buzzing even when the engine's running if I'm near the solenoids/fuses panel there on the left side. LOUD! I've never heard a solenoid do that.

- I pulled the 10amp fuse for the headlight, its fine
- it's funny that there is a 10amp fuse for the headlight AND there is a solenoid for the headlight!
I have no idea why the headlight needs a solenoid switch, unless its to keep the headlight off until the bike is running like on the Kawasaki Vulcan 750s I've had.

- with the headlight fuse removed I started the bike and checked voltage on the light fuse's socket
- I see voltage there but it rises and falls erratically and it does so IN TIME WITH THE 'LIGHT' SOLENOID'S BUZZING!
- I swapped the turn signal and Light solenoids, after verifying they're the same solenoid (shown by the printed part number/identifier on the sides of the solenoid (I *think* it was the turn signal solenoid; there are 3 of these silver solenoids on the fuse panel, the other may have been the hazard lights solenoid). CHANGED NOTHING. And that means the "Light" solenoid is NOT THE PROBLEM.
- When I put the turn signal relay into the Light relay's socket (and by the way, the turnsignals work fine) -- IT STARTED BUZZING TOO.

The buzzing *may* be the switch inside the solenoid opening and closing very rapidly.

I don't have a manual or electrical diagram for the '84 ZN1100 so I'm stuck.

Any ideas?


How strong is your battery?

If it's a relay, it could close and throw the 50 Watt headlight load on the battery.... which, if the battery is weak, will knock the battery voltage down and cause the relay to open, Repeat cycle ad infinitum..... and you hear the buzzing.
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No headlight, 1984 ZN1100 LTD 21 Jan 2016 20:56 #707559

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It's a new sealed type battery. The $100+ kind, not lead-acid.

This 1984 Zn1100 model has something I wish every bike I've owned had -- a voltmeter available on the dash.
You push and hold down a small button on the dash and the tachometer changes into a voltmeter to show the battery level.

I'm getting the correct voltage, around 14vdc indicating the charging circuit is fine.

Just to verify it, what I'll do tomorrow is 'load test' the battery by:

1) measuring the voltage on the battery with the key not in the ignition, ie. bike not turned on at all.

2) then put the key in the ignition and turn it to 'On' but not start it up. Then measure the voltage across the battery with the harness fully powered up.

I'll expect to see the battery drop not below 10vdc from what I remember about this type of 'load test' procedure.

The bike starts right up though with the starter. Usually if the battery is iffy/low you won't get that.

Thanks for the idea, I'll check it out.
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1980 Z1 Classic with Kerker

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No headlight, 1984 ZN1100 LTD 21 Jan 2016 21:56 #707561

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newOld_kz1000 wrote: It's a new sealed type battery. The $100+ kind, not lead-acid.

This 1984 Zn1100 model has something I wish every bike I've owned had -- a voltmeter available on the dash.
You push and hold down a small button on the dash and the tachometer changes into a voltmeter to show the battery level.

I'm getting the correct voltage, around 14vdc indicating the charging circuit is fine.

Just to verify it, what I'll do tomorrow is 'load test' the battery by:

1) measuring the voltage on the battery with the key not in the ignition, ie. bike not turned on at all.

2) then put the key in the ignition and turn it to 'On' but not start it up. Then measure the voltage across the battery with the harness fully powered up.

I'll expect to see the battery drop not below 10vdc from what I remember about this type of 'load test' procedure.

The bike starts right up though with the starter. Usually if the battery is iffy/low you won't get that.

Thanks for the idea, I'll check it out.

Sounds like the battery is good if it cranks the starter.

Is it possible it's just a bad relay?

I worked in electronics for 33 years and I couldn't count how many bad relays I have seen.
1979 KZ-750 Twin

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No headlight, 1984 ZN1100 LTD 22 Jan 2016 02:42 #707570

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The ch. elec. diagram at Partzilla shows that there are 3 "Starter" relays (HL, St, Main). I would swap a couple of those around. The turn signal relay may be different from the starter relays. There are also a couple of diode assys which could be defective.

Alternate wiring diagram. Several models appear to have the same junction box & components as the ZN1100,
including the ZX750A, so the headlight may be wired the same.
Here's a pdf manual & wiring diagrams. mbsween. bike-night. KZ750L3 . Scroll down & click "The Bible" link.
The 83 supplement has most of the electrical info for the ZX750.

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No headlight, 1984 ZN1100 LTD 22 Jan 2016 07:28 #707597

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Thanks for all those wiring diagrams. I did not find one to match the '84 zn1100 layout.

I ordered a new manual and it's due in tomorrow.

I will head over to the bike today and take photos of this 3-relay setup with the strange "LIGHT" relay that's sitting next to the Hazard and Turn Signal relays.

The relays have the exact same model numbers, it's printed right on the relays on their side. I'll show the photos later today of that.

When I saw that the "LIGHT" relay and the Turn Signal relay both had the same printed part/identifier number, I swapped them.
(see one of my earlier posts in this thread where I mentioned this).

Recall that I had originally noticed a loud buzzing coming from the LIGHT relay, and that it was also vibrating, as if the little mechanical switch inside the LIGHT relay was very rapidly going On/Off, On/Off, over and over. So much so that the LIGHT relay emitted an audible buzzing and was vibrating.

The Turn Signal relay, since I found it was the same part as the LIGHT relay, then got plugged into the LIGHT relay's socket.

And vice versa, I put the previously-buzzing-and-vibrating LIGHT relay and put it into the Turn Signal relay socket.

After making that swap, I turned on the bike and tested things:

1) the previously-buzzing-and-vibrating LIGHT relay worked *FINE* when plugged into the Turn Signal relay socket -- it did not make any buzzing sound; it also did not vibrate; and the turn signals worked fine. THUS, the "LIGHT" relay *must* be Okay.

2) the Turn Signal relay, now plugged in to the LIGHT relay socket, well the damn thing started buzzing and vibrating! And no power to the headlamp socket.

CRUX: by noticing the Turn Signal and LIGHT relays were the same part, then swapping them, then seeing NO CHANGE, that means that it is the SOCKET for the LIGHT relay (more precisely, the wiring connected to the LIGHT relay socket) that *is the problem.*

And the LIGHT relay socket's wires MAY lead to that "Reserve Lighting Unit'
[EDIT] -- "but that's based on looking at the '83 Kz1100 wiring diagram above.'

I have to wait until I have the correct '84 Zn1100 wiring diagram to troubleshoot what is wrong with the LIGHT relay's socket/wiring.

Pictures soon.
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Last edit: by newOld_kz1000.

No headlight, 1984 ZN1100 LTD 22 Jan 2016 08:32 #707619

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Okay my memory about the relay names was *wrong.*.
As you can see from the pictures below, there IS in fact the LIGHTS relay, but the other two are MAIN and START.

So when I swapped the two relays, it was the MAIN and not a Turn Signal relay used in the swap.

So I switched the MAIN and the LIGHTS relays.

The upper-left relay socket -- where the LIGHTS relay plugs in -- that is the problem.
When I put the MAIN relay into the LIGHTS socket, all of a sudden the MAIN relay started with this audible buzzing, and vibrating.

And putting the LIGHTS relay into the MAIN relay's socket did not cause any issues. AND it did not buzz or vibrate when it was plugged into the MAIN relay's socket.


Need that freaking wiring diagram.

FUSE BOX AND THE 3 SILVER RELAYS


LAYOUT OF THE FUSE BOX AND RELAYS (this is the black plastic cover of the fuse box with a label on it)


I REMOVED THE 'Lights' AND 'Main' RELAYS -- THEIR SOCKETS ARE THE SAME, JUST 180 DEGREES FROM EACH OTHER


'Lights' AND 'Main' RELAY ARE THE SAME PART


SO IT'S OKAY TO SWAP THEM, WHICH I DID -- NO CHANGE, THUS THE 'Lights' RELAY IS NOT THE PROBLEM




[img][/img]
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Last edit: by newOld_kz1000.

No headlight, 1984 ZN1100 LTD 22 Jan 2016 08:45 #707623

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Are all four spade connectors being used or is one blank. I was thinking you could adapt a off the shelf one in it's place.
Steve

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No headlight, 1984 ZN1100 LTD 22 Jan 2016 10:57 #707638

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if it's just a bad connector, it's going to have to be replaced.

The circuit diagram on the relay shows four electrical connections:

- 2 are used to supply voltage across the electromagnet inside the relay, which when energized, closes the switch inside the relay
- and the other 2 connections are shown in the diagram leading to and from that switch

So looking at the circuit diagram stamped on the relay, all 4 blades are in use.

This fuse panel is a 1/2" thick deal, doesn't appear to be accessible, I might be wrong but I didn't see any way to open the back of the fuse panel to get a look at the relay's connector from the backside.

My problem here could be:
- corrosion inside the fuse panel, at the area where the LIGHTS relay plugs into

- and/or the wiring from this LIGHTS relay's socket, which leads somewhere -- might have an open or short or cold solder joint or??

- and/or the wiring from that LIGHTS relay socket, which looking at the "close but no cigar" wiring diagrams for other Kaws around this model year -- there's a strong possibility that this LIGHTS relay socket's wires route into this psycho "Reserve Lighting Unit" deal they put on this bike. "How can we increase after-sale parts purchases" "let's make the freaking electrical system way too complex"
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Last edit: by newOld_kz1000.
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