TOPIC:

I'm running standard points on my KZ400 and wondered if electronic ignition would be worthwhile. Systems that use the points as just a trigger, for the electronics, seem to be reasonably priced but are they worth fitting?

Steve

Points work perfectly fine when they are maintained. Problem is some people don't do maintenance.

If you choose to make the switch be sure to make sure to assess whether or not your coils also need to be changed. The coil resistance needs to be matched to the type of ignition you use.

Nessism wrote: Points work perfectly fine when they are maintained. Problem is some people don't do maintenance.

If you choose to make the switch be sure to make sure to assess whether or not your coils also need to be changed. The coil resistance needs to be matched to the type of ignition you use.

+1 !

So many folks don't understand how to adjust points when they replace them, or even that points should periodically be replaced, so they ignore the maintenance and are disappointed when the bike runs poorly. Once one understands how to replace / adjust them it becomes a very simple task that only takes a few minutes to perform, and it normally only needs to be done every 8 - 12,000 miles so it isn't a big deal. Ed

Pastapete wrote: I'm running standard points on my KZ400 and wondered if electronic ignition would be worthwhile. Systems that use the points as just a trigger, for the electronics, seem to be reasonably priced but are they worth fitting?

Steve

I guess it depends. I doubt they yield much (if any) actual improvement in performance over a well maintained points system. But the points do last a lot longer so they require less maintenance and that's worth something.

Much as i appreciate keeping a bike bolt standard, to me points are inferior to elctronic ignition. The reason they needed two contact breakers was to make it work at high rpms -most cars of the era used just one contact breaker.

I remember messing about with my 70's Triumph Stag V8 and it's fiddly twin pionts, could't wait to chuck it all in the bin and upgrade to electronic ignition.

Using the points just as the trigger for a custom transistorised ignition box is a big improvement imo.

650ed wrote:

Nessism wrote: Points work perfectly fine when they are maintained. Problem is some people don't do maintenance.

If you choose to make the switch be sure to make sure to assess whether or not your coils also need to be changed. The coil resistance needs to be matched to the type of ignition you use.

+1 !

So many folks don't understand how to adjust points when they replace them, or even that points should periodically be replaced, so they ignore the maintenance and are disappointed when the bike runs poorly. Once one understands how to replace / adjust them it becomes a very simple task that only takes a few minutes to perform, and it normally only needs to be done every 8 - 12,000 miles so it isn't a big deal. Ed

+2 My first five bikes all had points, when that was all there was, if you wanted to have the fastest bike compared to your friends, you'd better learn how they work, how to gap them and how to adjust your timing. Now everyone talks about points as if they are some worthless unreliable contraption to be binned immediately. This just isn't the case, it really isn't hard to work with them or learn how to. Unless you have an electronic ignition with it's own advance curve, ones using the mechanical advancer have little advantage over points in performance terms. The big difference electronic ignition originally brought about was higher voltage coils and a fatter spark, which helped overcome other issues that effected starting. The lack of required maintenance was obviously a big advantage to those who didn't do maintenance, since poorly maintained points will seriously effect performance and starting. Often people go from poorly maintained and adjusted points and 40 year old coils to electronic ignition with new high voltage coils and see a huge difference, which they equate entirely to the electronic ignition. While I like electronic ignition and wouldn't want to go back to points, I don't think anyone could tell the difference, from the riders seat, between a fresh well set up points system and for example a Dyna S. I have two bikes still running points, if I change my 73 Triumph to electronic ignition it will be more for the advance curve than to lose the points. The mechanical advance unit advances too early and hits it's maximum too soon IMO, I believe performance could be improved with a proper advance curve rather than something that's fully advanced at 2,000 rpm or so.

Tyrell Corp wrote: Much as i appreciate keeping a bike bolt standard, to me points are inferior to elctronic ignition. The reason they needed two contact breakers was to make it work at high rpms -most cars of the era used just one contact breaker.

I remember messing about with my 70's Triumph Stag V8 and it's fiddly twin pionts, could't wait to chuck it all in the bin and upgrade to electronic ignition.

Using the points just as the trigger for a custom transistorised ignition box is a big improvement imo.

Cars had a distributor as well so the spark was controlled there as to which cylinder it went to. To work at higher rpm a larger diameter distributor cap worked better to avoid cross arcing between posts of the distributor cap. On a motorcycle with no distributor, you either had to have the number of sets of points as the cylinders or a wasted spark set up, so half the number of points compared to cylinders. Having two sets of points on a twin for example helps you get the timing spot on for each cylinder, on a wasted spark system you usually have to balance the timing a little to be as near as possible for each cylinder.

On the Triumph Stag the points were the least of your worries IMO, the timing chains usually came off and destroyed the motor long before the points should have required attention.

Some of the exotic Lambo Ferrari V8 's had twin distributors for the high rpm dwell time issue.

Stag's main problems were overheating, and later corrosion in the uk. but the timing chains were an issue too. A high maintenance car, reminds me of some of the girlfriends I had, very pretty but high maintenance and impractical long term...that's my excuse anyway.

The real problem with the Stag engine is that they made a V8 with many components from 2 x Dolomite 4 cylinder engines, As those engines had also sorts of issues including overheating and warped heads it's not surprising, making a more complex 8 cylinder motor with two Dolomite cylinder heads dramatically increased the problems exponentially. They did all this in the British Leyland group that already had the Rover V8 in house, a proven unit, which ironically was the motor swapped in to many Stags when they bit the dust. The Stag was a beautiful looking car in it's day, but like so much of the British stuff in the 70's it was ruined by some poor design features and a lack of development coupled with and absence of any quality control. It was the period in Britain where just about every car and motorcycle manufacturer seemed to commit suicide.

Interestingly enough my sister in law had a Stag. As I recall she wound up replacing just about everything on it to get it to run semi-reliably.

I too believe points are inferior to an electronic ignition. I appreciate a stock look but not if it compromises performance and you can't see them anyhow unless you take the cover off. I actually posted a few weeks ago after I'd installed an electronic ignition from Charlie's Place. I'm pretty happy with it, the performance is unexpectedly good. They only advertise Honda ignitions so you have to ask.