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Electrical System Cuts Out when Start is pressed 16 Nov 2015 18:35 #699030

  • trevorm23
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I just replaced the battery in my 1982 KZ440A3 LTD today, and charged it as prescribed for 4.5 hours. It was well above 12Vwhen I finished charging it, then I installed it in the bike. When I turn the key to ON, the lights and indicators come on, however when I depress the "Start Button, the systems dim and there is a whining sound and the starter does not crank. Please Help! Thanks!

I Attached a video of exactly what is happening!
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Electrical System Cuts Out when Start is pressed 16 Nov 2015 18:39 #699031

  • Barry2
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Check that the cable from the starter solinoid to the battery has not shorted out against something.
1976 KZ900
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Electrical System Cuts Out when Start is pressed 16 Nov 2015 19:16 #699034

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Check your connections are clean and tight at the battery and the solenoid as well as your ground connection. Possibly your starter motor has a bad patch on the commutator or worn/sticking brushes and that's why it's not starting although it's obviously drawing power, or you are partially breaking a poor connection with the high load of the starter motor. I'm not familiar with the KZ440 starter location, but if you could find a way to turn the starter motor a little manually and then try it again you might find it will work. Was it working OK with the other battery prior to fitting the new one? or was the battery too dead to operate it?
1978 KZ1000A2 Wiseco 1075 kit
1977 KZ650B1
1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V
1968 BSA Victor Special 441
2015 Triumph Thunderbird LT
1980 Suzuki SP400

Old enough to know better, still too young to care
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Electrical System Cuts Out when Start is pressed 17 Nov 2015 05:16 #699075

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The battery was completely dead and would not even take a charge

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Electrical System Cuts Out when Start is pressed 17 Nov 2015 05:22 #699076

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In that case you may have an existing issue with the starter motor or solenoid, but still check the basics and that the starter is not stuck if it's been sitting.
1978 KZ1000A2 Wiseco 1075 kit
1977 KZ650B1
1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V
1968 BSA Victor Special 441
2015 Triumph Thunderbird LT
1980 Suzuki SP400

Old enough to know better, still too young to care

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Electrical System Cuts Out when Start is pressed 17 Nov 2015 07:11 #699094

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I will say that with the new battery in, it did crank a few times if I had my foot on the battery - no idea why this helped? I just bought the bike, and I am running under the assumption that it had been sitting for years.

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Electrical System Cuts Out when Start is pressed 17 Nov 2015 10:36 #699117

  • MFolks
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The Dreaded Shorting/Intermittent Electrical Problem!


Here is the most basic method I know(Taken from www.kzrider.com by member Patton)

1. Charge your battery and have it load tested if you can. The floating ball hydrometer can be used to check the specific gravity of the charged cells in the battery.

2. Disconnect the Black lead from the (-) Battery terminal... or Red from the (+) Battery terminal, it does not matter which one.

3. Connect one of the following test setups in series with the Battery terminal and lead:
3.1 A 12 V light bulb,
3.2 A 12 V test light,
3.3 A 12 V test buzzer or,
3.4 A 12 V horn... you get the idea.

4. With the Ignition Switch OFF, go through your harness and wiggle the wires while looking/listening for the test setup to go on/start buzzing.

5.With the Ignition Switch ON, repeat the test except this time the looking/listening for the test setup to go on/stop buzzing.

6. Be prepared to open the Ignition switch and check/test for solder joint failure and or circuit board micro breaks (don't ask how I know this ).

7. Be prepared to pull the wires out of the Head Light to test for failures at or near the grommet.

8. Be prepared to open the harness at or near the Steering Neck for failures. This is where wires tend to exhibit fatigue due to repetitive movement.

9. Be prepared to open the left and right switch gear to search for rust and or broken parts. CAUTION: watch out for flying springs, ball bearings and stuff. Do indoors on White sheet (again don't ask ).

10. Be prepared to follow the heavy gauge wire from the Starter Solenoid (Relay) to the starter for bare wire exposure. Especially near bends and grommets.

11. If you can reproduce the fault symptom your are pretty much home free. Be prepare to find and repair/replace any internal wire breaks, insulation break downs, exposed wires, rubber grommet failures, etc. Often, shrink tubing will solve the problem temporarily until something better can be done.

12. I use a very good electrical contact cleaner/preservative called De-oxit made by Caig Labs in San Diego Ca. Their website is www.deoxit.com It can be purchased at Radio Shack and any other electronic supply store. I use it on all of my motorcycle’s electrical connectors , in my home entertainment center’s stereo patch cords and cordless phones charging cradles.
1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)

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Electrical System Cuts Out when Start is pressed 17 Nov 2015 10:37 #699118

  • MFolks
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Cleaning Motorcycle Electrics

Get some of the De-Oxit electrical contact cleaner and figure on spending a good day going from the front of the bike to the back. It’s a plastic safe cleaner/preservative. www.deoxit.com is their website.

On the older Kawasaki's, a majority of electrical connectors are inside the headlight housing requiring removal of the headlight, then the fun begins.

Do one set of electrical connectors at a time to avoid mixing up what connects to where. Usually disconnecting, spraying with De-Oxit and reconnecting is about all you'll need.

However, when encountering the green crud of corrosion, a brass wire brush may be needed on the pins you can reach.
Some 400-600 grit wet and dry sandpaper strips rolled into a tube should reach the male and female pins in the more difficult to clean connectors.

Smoker’s pipe cleaners, cotton swabs and wooden toothpicks work as cleaning aids.

Really small electrical connectors may require the use of a welders tip cleaning tool assortment.

Most pins in the connectors are coated with a thin plating of tin, and others may be nothing more than copper or brass.

If moisture is added, the resulting corrosion lowers the voltage/current being carried causing dim lights, slow engine cranking, slow turn signal response and lower input voltage to the ignition coils resulting in weak spark.

The left and right handlebar switch pods will need attention too as they have circuit functions like turn, horn, run/stop, and start.

Usually a spritz or two with actuation of the switch is about all needed for these switches unless corrosion is detected and then careful disassembly is required.

The ignition switch may or may be not sealed to allow spraying the internal contacts. I urge caution if attempting to open this up as springs, and ball bearings may fly out never to be seen again!

If your bike has the older style glass tubed fuses, I suggest replacing them as vibration can cause internal failure. AGX is the type used, and most auto parts stores can get them for you.

Clean the fuse holder clips, looking for signs of overheating(discolored insulation, signs of melting).
I use metal polish on a cotton swab, followed by spraying another clean swab with the De-Oxit and then rubbing the inside of the fuse clip.

All battery cables must be clean and tight for maximum current transfer. Check the cables going from the Negative(-) battery terminal/post to the engine mounting bolt

Also the one going from the Positive(+) terminal to the starter solenoid and from there to the starter motor.

If any battery cable feels ”Crunchy” when flexed, replace it as possible corrosion is inside the insulation.

Each "Bullet Connector" will have to be sprayed to ensure good connectivity, especially the ones going to the energizing coil of the starter solenoid.

The alternator output “Bullet Connectors” are usually behind the engine sprocket cover and will need inspecting and cleaning too.

The turn signal light sockets will benefit from a spritz from the contact cleaner along with the tail light/brake light socket.

Some brake light switches can be sprayed on the actuating rod, with the spray running down inside to the electrical contacts, others may be sealed requiring replacement if the switch is intermittent in operation.

Some people put the Di-Electric Grease on cleaned terminations/connectors, I don’t, as I’ve read/heard it can cause problems when it gets hot, actually insulating the connections, so the choice is yours to use or not.

I think I've covered about all of the electrical systems on the bike.........


“I spent a weekend going through every electrical connection and switch on the bike with a little scotchbrite pad and DeOxit - what a difference! Everything was brighter, gauge backlights, indicator lights, turn signals, I was getting a nicer spark, it fired up quicker, etc. Well worth my time. WELL worth it! “
From a forum member at www.kzrider.com



Re: Cleaning the many and various Motorcycle electrics.
I used the De-oxit D-5 spray on all the electrical connections of my 78 Kz1000 that had sat for twenty years .

When I parked the bike in 92 I was starting to have troubles with some of the electrical system, but after pulling everything apart and giving it a spray , reconnecting the connectors and working them back and forth a few times, then gave them another shot of spray to wash them off before the final reconnection.

Everything still works perfectly and has for over 7000 miles this year.

I am extremely happy with the results , a lot of the connectors were green when I started and after the cleaning they looked new ( shiny gold )

I found the Deoxit D-series, D-5 spray in a 4 oz can at a big electronics store called Frys in Illinois, don't get the small cans at Radio Shack , they are different and meant for computer type stuff.

store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.188/.f


Recommendations:
Excellent contact cleaner from audio to ac power contacts
I've been an A/V Tech-Roadie for over 30 years and have used Deoxit since it was first introduced. I've cleaned /rejuvenated volume controls,switches and audio connections on everything from guitar amps to full blown recording consoles. It not only cleans mild to excessive corrosion but the lubricant keeps the part in good working order months afterwards. Much easier than replacing a hard to replace part. I also spray it on all the audio connectors periodically to insure good connectivity. Along with my A.C. power plugs and quad boxes that are used outside for live shows to prevent corrosion from the elements.
Good stuff. Obviously highly recommended.


Great Stuff
I used this stuff on my 35 year old Kenwood KA-7300 amp which had not been used in more than 10 years and it was fantastic. When I first tried to use the amp, all of the switches only worked sometimes and the static and intermittent sound was unbearable. I thought that my left channel was not working because it had such a low output compared to the right channel no matter where the balance was set. After cleaning all the input/ and output jacks and the switches along with vacuuming out the inside of the amp, the amp works great and sounds like it did back in the day! I was more than pleasantly surprised!!



I've used DeoxIT for years. My first use was on a BMW instrument cluster that an $800 "reno" hadn't fixed. I sprayed the several connectors and mates, dozens and dozens of connectors, let it sit overnight and reinstalled it in the car. That cured every problem. Years after manufacture one or more of those connections could get iffy, and they do. Since then I've fixed several instrument clusters, engine and transmission computer problems caused by the same thing, connections, and no telling how many other electrical connection problems in cars.

An Effective cleaner-rejuvinator!
I used this to clean the pots, switches, and faders on my old Allen & Heath SR416 mixer. Everything is working top-notch again and everything moves/slides with ease. DeoxIT is a great product and it always improves sound quality and equipment life. This is the only cleaner you need!

Trust MFolks , the guy's a true rocket scientist and really knows what he's talking about.
JD
1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)
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Electrical System Cuts Out when Start is pressed 17 Nov 2015 10:43 #699120

  • jakedude
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Barry2 wrote: Check that the cable from the starter solinoid to the battery has not shorted out against something.

+1
I might go so far as to remove the starter power line from the starter solenoid and then press the start button. All the electrics on you bike should work with starter power removed from the starter solenoid. Pressing the start button won't start the bike but it will tell you if anything strange is happening before the starter solenoid. You can also check for power at the starter connection to the solenoid when you press the start button. After that it's your starter motor or your connections to it.
Nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect.

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Electrical System Cuts Out when Start is pressed 17 Nov 2015 16:07 #699152

  • SWest
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Have you tried to jump it with a known good battery?
Steve

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Electrical System Cuts Out when Start is pressed 18 Nov 2015 05:47 #699201

  • trevorm23
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I tried jumping it off of my van (van not running, just ran cable to old battery from van battery) - haven't tried with the new battery, though

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