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10 amp Ignition fuse keeps blowing 04 Jun 2015 15:52 #675252

  • SWest
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Sounds like the carbs are NOT getting enough fuel. Like to see the plugs.
Steve
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10 amp Ignition fuse keeps blowing 04 Jun 2015 19:53 #675291

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RFE81LTD1K wrote: . . . bought the new Dyna coils from Z1, I also bought some of there plug wires. (7mm copper core)


Are Dyna green 3 ohm coils being used with the stock igniter-equipped ignition?

Has the stock ignition been replaced with a different ignition such as Dyna-S (which does away with the stock igniter)?




Too tight valve clearances are most symptomatic at idle speed on an engine that's attained normal operating temperature. For example, the cold or cooled engine seems to start and run okay until it warms up and then won't idle and dies instead of idling (such as when coming to a halt before waiting at a red light).

Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
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10 amp Ignition fuse keeps blowing 05 Jun 2015 03:08 #675330

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swest wrote: Sounds like the carbs are NOT getting enough fuel. Like to see the plugs.
Steve

Will do. Tomorrow afternoon.

Meanwhile ... Patton, Thank you. That's a great diagram of the air and fuel passages. I will refer to it making sure all the passages are unobstructed.


Yes, the Dyna green 3 ohm coils are being used with the otherwise stock ignition. Other than the coils and plug wires non of the other ignition components have been changed.
I don't think the improper/too tight valve clearance you described would apply to my problem. It runs it's best when it's good and warm. Once warm it idles fine without dying. It's the restating after it's warm I'm having the problem with. I have to choke it and then feather the choke to keep it running without dying. Once running again for a minute or so it idles and throttles fine.

The results of that little rocking experiment or test I described earlier convinced me the floats are not allowing enough fuel into the bowls.. Jarring the bike and ultimately bouncing the floats up and down allowing a little more fuel to enter the carb bowls was apparently just enough to get all the cylinders to run.
I'm still having a hard time excepting I screwed up the clear tube method setting the floats knowing I went through the process at least a half a dozen times. I could understand screwing it up once or even twice. But 6-7 times? You'd think this was my first rodeo and I'd never turned a wrench before. I'm no pro mechanic but I've been turning wrenches keeping things working / running all my life. It's what we learn to do when you can't afford to pay somebody else to do it for you. I admit I may not know a lot of the technical stuff ... but hey, that's what I've got y'all for. :) Lol.
Needless to say I thank each and every one of you for your help. I truly appreciate you sticking with me on this. Hopefully you'll continue to do so until one of us figures this sht out.

Thanks again guys.
Robert
81 KZ1000 LTD
All original.
15k miles.
Last edit: by RFE81LTD1K.
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10 amp Ignition fuse keeps blowing 05 Jun 2015 11:49 #675395

  • missionkz
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Robert, just because you checked and set float levels 5-7 times... doesn't mean that you still don't have a couple floats with their needles getting stuck in the seats, due to needle and seat bind, hinge pin bind, float obstruction bind or what ever.... effectively shutting the fuel off for a while when hot.
I think all of us that are/have been back yard mechanics have seen stuff like this happen.
So, keep in mind that the choke/enrichment system pretty much picks up fuel from the bottom of the float bowl in most carbs.
So if the level is super low when hot (after fully filling when cooler) and there is still some gas down there, it might be enough to fire the engine off and the vibration drops the float down again until it gets stuck at the top again.... that of course is pure speculation and could very well not be the case at all!! LOL
Bruce
1977 KZ1000A1
2016 Triumph T120 Bonneville
Far North East Metro Denver Colorado
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10 amp Ignition fuse keeps blowing 05 Jun 2015 12:30 #675401

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missionkz wrote: Robert, just because you checked and set float levels 5-7 times... doesn't mean that you still don't have a couple floats with their needles getting stuck in the seats, due to needle and seat bind, hinge pin bind, float obstruction bind or what ever.... effectively shutting the fuel off for a while when hot.
I think all of us that are/have been back yard mechanics have seen stuff like this happen.
So, keep in mind that the choke/enrichment system pretty much picks up fuel from the bottom of the float bowl in most carbs.
So if the level is super low when hot (after fully filling when cooler) and there is still some gas down there, it might be enough to fire the engine off and the vibration drops the float down again until it gets stuck at the top again.... that of course is pure speculation and could very well not be the case at all!! LOL

Yeah, your right. I could have floats sticking that may not have been noticeable while setting the floats on the bench but would once they were back on the engine.
And thanks. I kinda needed a little pick me up. Been thinkin this thing was kickin my a$$. Lol.

Thanks again.
Robert
81 KZ1000 LTD
All original.
15k miles.
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10 amp Ignition fuse keeps blowing 05 Jun 2015 16:22 #675432

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Years ago while working on a KZ900 of mine for resale... I rebuilt the carbs and after two on-off tweaks.... it ran FABULOUSLY!!
What I didn't like, after sorting it out, was how ugly the float bowls and top caps looked and I wanted it to look as good as it ran.
So with only about 30-40 miles on the carbs. I popped the carbs off, removed the lids and bowls, brought them in and polished them up. Looked great.
Put the thing back together, cleaned it up and took it for a ride... it ran wonderful.
Let a "friend of a friend" drive it and he made me a solid offer so I sold it.
About two weeks later, all I heard was what a piece of crap the bike was and how it would not go over 70mph, miss and bark, sounded like it was spitting up... etc etc etc.
He pissed and moaned non stop and wanted all his money back, after he just got home from taking it on 350 mile bike trip.
I said Hell no.
The bitching was a pain and he would not let up. My real friend and I couldn't take it anymore so I told him to bring it over and leave it with me for a while and let me try it out.
Yup, ran like ass. Oh God
Nightmare running.
I tried all the normal stuff with new plugs (they were fairly sooty black), points, condenser, valve lash gaps.... float level.. etc.
Nothing made any difference... idled nicely had nice power at the front end that fell on it's face wide open .
Knowing there could be nothing wrong with the carbs, I pulled the fuel selector apart and found a little bit of crap... rinsed the tank out, cleaned the selector well and put new fuel lines on... No difference, the bike just sucked dead donkey's ass,
So I figured the coils were bad, (sooty plugs and all).
Took the ones off my KZ and used them on his... no difference.
Almost week into it, I decided he had blown something in the motor or ???
Pulled the carbs and was going to slide the head off to see if there was a cross over blown head gasket or something because my compression gauge was broken. Mistake 1
At the last second I removed one of the float bowls to see if they there was something holding the float open with the engine running or?
:ohmy: ...
There it was laying in the bottom... a main jet!
Holy Hell... took the other three off... yup one more laying in frickin bowl and one ready to go.
Put them back in and tightened them up, installed the bowls and carbs.... fire it up and, yes, it ran like scalded monkey right up to well over 110mph.
Lesson:
I absolutely refused to accept I had a carb problem!!
But there it was...I was a dork, Finger tight main jets and forgot to tighten/torque them correctly almost 400 miles ago!
One super loose, two of them, one by one, fell off into the fuel abyss!!
Bruce
1977 KZ1000A1
2016 Triumph T120 Bonneville
Far North East Metro Denver Colorado
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10 amp Ignition fuse keeps blowing 05 Jun 2015 16:37 #675433

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Not the only one for dumb moves. I was jetting down my 33's but getting the bowls off was a pain in the arse. The last time I had them off I replaced the screws with SS Allen head's. I had a little trouble with #3 pilot but put it back together and rode to OR. Half way there, it started running like SHT. I dropped #3 bowl and the pilot was in the bottom of the bowl. :ohmy: The Allen's make it easy to service the floats, this time it was one of the jets. :dry:
We've all been there or are going to be. B)
Steve
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10 amp Ignition fuse keeps blowing 06 Jun 2015 01:35 #675473

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LOL. Sorry but I can't help but chuckle a little knowing I'm not the only one guilty of making simple mistakes. According to my wife I made a mistake today and don't even know what it was. :huh: Oh it'll come out sooner or later but probably not till she stews on it for a while. :angry: But that's Oooo K. As long as the pot doesn't boil over I'm good. B) Ut-oh, she might have seen the bank account after all the parts I ordered. :ohmy: Oh well ... as many times as I've been down this road, begging for forgiveness is still easier than getting permission. :kiss: LOL.

I can't tell you how many times I've taken something back apart just to make sure I didn't forget to tighten something or whatever. ??? I was a machinist for about 15 years. Remember the old saying "measure twice, cut once" ? You don't get second chances in machine work and as a result becoming somewhat of a perfectionist. You cut too much, you scrap the piece. No redoes. No start overs. No matter how long you stand there staring at it and remeasuring it umpteen times, you scraped it and just cost somebody in some cases 10's of thousands of dollars. Not good.
What I'm getting at is countless times I'd measure a part, turn on the machine, set my tooling for how much I needed to cut and then engage the feed to cut it. Then in the short few seconds it would take the cutting tool to meet the part something would tell me to STOP everything and remeasure. Most of the time it was a false alarm. But sometimes that second guessing would save my a$$ That and my job. LOL.
I think it's that same second guessing that's eating at me on these floats. Did I or didn't I measure um right? In the end I guess it doesn't really matter. What does matter is getting them right this time.

OK, enough of that sht. Back to the bike. I didn't have time to mess with it today. I promised pix of the plugs but just couldn't make it happen today. I'll take um out and shoot pix tomorrow. Yeah, I know ... "where have you heard that before"? :whistle: Come he11 or high water (in which Texas has had plenty of lately) I'll get those pix posted asap.

Later guys. And thanks again.
Robert
81 KZ1000 LTD
All original.
15k miles.
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10 amp Ignition fuse keeps blowing 06 Jun 2015 05:54 #675478

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In carpentry we called it the one inch trick. They don't make a beam stretcher.
Steve
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10 amp Ignition fuse keeps blowing 07 Jun 2015 01:02 #675572

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Ok, I don't think the plug are going to give us an accurate reading. These are the same plugs I initially put in before I started it for the first time after sitting for 12+ years. Prior to starting it I had put a mixture of gas and Marvel Mystery oil into the cylinders and blew air into them with an air nozzle. Then I bumped it over a few turns before letting it crank over. Once satisfied it was cranking over freely I put the plugs in and started the engine. Needless to say the burning Mystery oil in the cylinders and exhaust fogged the whole garage. Point being these plugs are subject to being a little carboned up or should I say burnt oil coated giving them the dark coloring on the ends and a grayish color in on the electrode.
As above, In case you can't tell in the pix, the electrodes are a grayish color. Not exactly the tan or golden brown we're looking for.

Anyway ... here they are. 1-4 from left to right. And yes, I'm going to get new ones.

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The first three pix are deceiving making a few of the electrodes look tan colored. They're not. They're all a light to medium gray color like in the last two pix.
81 KZ1000 LTD
All original.
15k miles.
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10 amp Ignition fuse keeps blowing 07 Jun 2015 02:28 #675573

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Got my first delivery today. (Sat) The floats. Now I wish I had ordered the needles, seats and gaskets for there too. But noooo. I ordered um from Z1 and have to wait till next week to get them.
81 KZ1000 LTD
All original.
15k miles.
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10 amp Ignition fuse keeps blowing 07 Jun 2015 11:39 #675615

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You have time today to see if you can save some money.
Clean the needles and and seats.
Use a Q-tip cut in half and the put the stick part in a little drill motor chuck.
Put a dab of polishing compound on it and spin it up inside the seat to polish it.
Clean it out real good and inspect the needle for any damage, like a little ridge where it has been rubbing.
Unless the carb has been out in a pasture for 20 years, 90% of the time a new needle and seat in a carb kit is waste of money!!
Bruce
1977 KZ1000A1
2016 Triumph T120 Bonneville
Far North East Metro Denver Colorado
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