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voltige drop to coils fix for easyer starting 05 Oct 2014 01:44 #649719

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80B4 wrote: Where did I say "fail" ? Reread everything I have added to this thread and show me where I said connectors "fail". I did say " on my stock motorcycles it takes less then two years to go from full battery voltage at the load to 90%"..

And you still never explained exactly what that statement means. At the "load"? Do you mean at the positive node of the coil? The headlight? They are both loads. If a connection or switch or any conductor "degrades" (ie, increases in resistance) the increased voltage drop across it is proportional to current flowing. So, in reaty, it would be virtually impossible to see 90% voltage reduction at all circuit load points since every load (bulb, horn, blinker, coil, etc) draws different current. I don't understand what the 90% claim means or how it could apply.

Yes, you will see voltage drops across connections, switches, fuses, and even wires but that's designed into the system.

80B4 wrote: I have never had a relay fail in any vehicle, and my Nissan truck and Toyota Camry are full of them.

Buy a lottery ticket, you're the luckiest guy I ever knew. As one of my technicians once told me:

If I had a dollar for every board I had to rework with a stuck relay, I wouldn't have to work here anymore..... :laugh:
1979 KZ-750 Twin
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Last edit: by bountyhunter.

voltige drop to coils fix for easyer starting 06 Oct 2014 20:40 #649908

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thank you for the tips tho i have not had a heat issue yet the 2ed relay is for the 2ed coil left and right also doubles as a back up if one fails on the road i can quickly wire it to one and keep going i have pulled it all apart and re wired the mail wiring harness to move all the wires under the tank too keep them out of the headlight and so i can move a few things ill be posting that soon

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voltige drop to coils fix for easyer starting 06 Oct 2014 20:48 #649909

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i went tho the bike its the switches and i cleaned everything still losing voltage its js just the 20 yr old wiring and wires seem to small for the coils anyway but thanks for the input

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voltige drop to coils fix for easyer starting 06 Oct 2014 20:54 #649910

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i have gone tho it the head light relay its set so when i hit the start buton it terns the head light off just to help start it i ride this bike in the cold so when its 40 or 30 out and the engines cold every bit of power helps

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voltige drop to coils fix for easyer starting 06 Oct 2014 21:04 #649911

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the relays and wiring mods i have done will not cause the bike to over charge to 15 v even with the work i have trouble hitting 14v i know my wiring skills well ill add a pic i had my charging rectifier kick it on a road trip and only thing i had was one of a new GPZ and i costume wired to to fit my KZ wiring harness

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voltige drop to coils fix for easyer starting 06 Oct 2014 21:44 #649916

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dunt stop now kzbiker8684 your on a roal
Gulf Coast, Texas
1977 KZ1000LTD
1984 VF700F

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voltige drop to coils fix for easyer starting 06 Oct 2014 22:33 #649919

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I also modified the electrical system on mine MANY years back with a relay to disconnect all the non-ignition load (headlight, tail light, instrument lights, running lights, etc) from the battery when the starter relay is energized. Battery life went from an average of 18 months to 6 years,,,,, lead acid batteries do not live long if they have to crank the starter with the headlights, tail lights and running lights going while they start.

IMHO, that's a viable modification that justifies the hassle and degradation in reliability caused by a relay.... BTW, a number of bike makers incorporate the same system to reduce peak load on the battery when starting.

I'm not adverse to mods if they actually are beneficial.
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voltige drop to coils fix for easyer starting 07 Oct 2014 12:10 #649979

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bountyhunter wrote:

80B4 wrote: Where did I say "fail" ? Reread everything I have added to this thread and show me where I said connectors "fail". I did say " on my stock motorcycles it takes less then two years to go from full battery voltage at the load to 90%"..

And you still never explained exactly what that statement means. At the "load"? Do you mean at the positive node of the coil? The headlight? They are both loads. If a connection or switch or any conductor "degrades" (ie, increases in resistance) the increased voltage drop across it is proportional to current flowing. So, in reaty, it would be virtually impossible to see 90% voltage reduction at all circuit load points since every load (bulb, horn, blinker, coil, etc) draws different current. I don't understand what the 90% claim means or how it could apply.


Yes, you will see voltage drops across connections, switches, fuses, and even wires but that's designed into the system.

80B4 wrote: I have never had a relay fail in any vehicle, and my Nissan truck and Toyota Camry are full of them.

Buy a lottery ticket, you're the luckiest guy I ever knew. As one of my technicians once told me:

If I had a dollar for every board I had to rework with a stuck relay, I wouldn't have to work here anymore..... :laugh:


You completely dodged the question. Where did I say "fail"?
1980B4 1000
1978 Z1R
1978 B3 750

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Last edit: by 80B4.

voltige drop to coils fix for easyer starting 07 Oct 2014 15:30 #649997

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80B4 wrote:

bountyhunter wrote:

80B4 wrote: Where did I say "fail" ? Reread everything I have added to this thread and show me where I said connectors "fail". I did say " on my stock motorcycles it takes less then two years to go from full battery voltage at the load to 90%"..

And you still never explained exactly what that statement means. At the "load"? Do you mean at the positive node of the coil? The headlight? They are both loads. If a connection or switch or any conductor "degrades" (ie, increases in resistance) the increased voltage drop across it is proportional to current flowing. So, in reaty, it would be virtually impossible to see 90% voltage reduction at all circuit load points since every load (bulb, horn, blinker, coil, etc) draws different current. I don't understand what the 90% claim means or how it could apply.


Yes, you will see voltage drops across connections, switches, fuses, and even wires but that's designed into the system.

80B4 wrote: I have never had a relay fail in any vehicle, and my Nissan truck and Toyota Camry are full of them.

Buy a lottery ticket, you're the luckiest guy I ever knew. As one of my technicians once told me:

If I had a dollar for every board I had to rework with a stuck relay, I wouldn't have to work here anymore..... :laugh:


You completely dodged the question. Where did I say "fail"?


I never dodged anything. I am just not going to waste my life arguing semantics. Here is what you said, direct quote:

If you want full voltage and don't install relays you will be cleaning connections and switches every two years.


You are saying you have found a problem that needs fixing every two years and you have the "fix". Spin the semantics anyway you want. I am saying that is wrong and there is mountains of proof provided.

And speaking of dodging the question, I asked you twice to give support for the false statement you made:

My DVOM, digital voltage ohm meter, does not lie. On my stock motorcycles it takes less than 2 years for the electrocal system to go from full battery voltage at the load to 90%.


WHAT LOAD?

WHAT POINT ARE YOU MEASURING THAT SHOWS THAT DROP?

As I said before, every passive electrical device is a LOAD including every bulb, horn, headlight, ignition, etc. Every device that uses power. Which one(s) show a 90% battery voltage?

Are you saying the entire system voltage reads only 90% of the battery voltage?

Like I said, that claim is bogus. It is certainly possible that you can read only 90% of the battery voltage at the coil + terminal because of voltage drops across the ignition switch, fuse, connectors, etc. I believe that. But here is the point:

THE IGNITION COIL WILL WORK JUST FINE WITH 90% OF BATTERY VOLTAGE. IN FACT, IT WILL PROBABLY START THE BIKE JUST FINE WITH VOLTAGE AS LOW AS 5V. YOU ONLY NEED ABOUT 10 KV AT THE PLUG TO RUN. And more over, increasing the voltage beyond what it takes for a spark doesn't increase performance.

The point is, the "coil mod" is not needed to run. If your bike is hard to start, fix whats wrong with it.
1979 KZ-750 Twin
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voltige drop to coils fix for easyer starting 07 Oct 2014 16:35 #649999

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Anybody who says a relay will never fail has never spent any time around the hvac industry! :woohoo:
Still recovering,some days are better than others.
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voltige drop to coils fix for easyer starting 07 Oct 2014 20:49 #650031

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Troll
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1978 Z1R
1978 B3 750

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voltige drop to coils fix for easyer starting 07 Oct 2014 20:59 #650032

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Yeah a troll whos forgotten more about big bore kawasakis then you can ever hope to learn,not to mention a licensed electrical/hvac/plumbing contractor whos got 30 plus years experience whos changed a few relays. :)
Still recovering,some days are better than others.

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