TOPIC:

Hi all, well the bike was running good for a bit but it is a fixer so it wants my attention. I was starting it up after stopping during a ride. Well, after a pop it dropped a cylinder. Number 2. I pulled the plug and it was black. Checked secondary resistance at the coil and got 11.3. Checked primary and it is 0. On both coils! I dont think that could be right as th manual says 1.8 to 2.8. Disassembled the boot off the wire after getting 0 resistance thru it. I know these coils have been around for at least 17 years or so but I don't know if I am not doing something wrong and getting the bad readings. The popping did continue although it was intermittent. I did replace all the plugs but it dropped again. I checked resistance at both 2 and 3 boots and got 0. I didnt expect that on both boots since #3 seems to be working good. When I first started it up after a 10 year rest I checked the spark at the plugs and they seemed weak to me but it ran so I figured I was just being paranoid. Finally cylinder number 2 pipe was 100 degrees colder than the rest even when it ran good. Any ideas? It is never easy is it. Sometimes I feel like I'm going in circles and I probably am. Thanks, Keith

OK, I've been chewing on this one. I bought another tester because I just can't figure out why I show no resistance on the primaries for both coils since the bike runs. I will also test the secondaries tonight as last night I got 11.6k on the 2/3 coil and 23.4 on the 1/4 coil. What doesn't make sense is the number 2 cylinder had the black plug. Am I testing wrong? Are my coils just weak? Freaky! Additionally, I checked the number 2 carb float bowl height using the clear tube method and it looks a little high. I have avoided trying to adjust the floats as I really don't know how best to bend the tab while the carb is in place. Do I have to remove them to make the adjustment? Lastly another reason I haven't made any adjustment is I really don't know how far I need to bend the tang to get a few mm's of float height. Would love to hear how you guys do it. I don't like having so many variables either but oh well..... Thanks in advance for the advice, Keith

Well, looks like my coils are marginal but close. Primary side OK, secondary side just outside of range. But it ran. I think I am going to replace them anyway just to look forward. That being said, my manual is sending me to test the rest of the system. I got to start writing down results or I will forget. I have been reluctant to do this but looks like the only path that will give me peace of mind. I will report findings for any suggestions that may be offered. I'm learning anyway. Having fun on the puzzle.

I may have suggested this to you, but I do this to owners of these older bikes:

Cleaning Motorcycle Electrics

Get some of the De-Oxit electrical contact cleaner and figure on spending a good day going from the front of the bike to the back. It’s a plastic safe cleaner/preservative. www.deoxit.com is their website.

On the older Kawasaki's, a majority of electrical connectors are inside the headlight housing requiring removal of the headlight, then the fun begins.

Do one set of electrical connectors at a time to avoid mixing up what connects to where. Usually disconnecting, spraying with De-Oxit and reconnecting is about all you'll need.

However, when encountering the green crud of corrosion, a brass wire brush may be needed on the pins you can reach.
Some 400-600 grit wet and dry sandpaper strips rolled into a tube should reach the male and female pins in the more difficult to clean connectors.

Smoker’s pipe cleaners, cotton swabs and wooden toothpicks work as cleaning aids.

Really small electrical connectors may require the use of a welders tip cleaning tool assortment.

Most pins in the connectors are coated with a thin plating of tin, and others may be nothing more than copper or brass.

If moisture is added, the resulting corrosion lowers the voltage/current being carried causing dim lights, slow engine cranking, slow turn signal responce and lower input voltage to the ignition coils resulting in weak spark.

The left and right handlebar switch pods will need attention too as they have circuit functions like turn, horn, run/stop, and start.

Usually a spritz or two with actuation of the switch is about all needed for these switches unless corrosion is detected and then careful disassembly is required.

The ignition switch may or may be not sealed to allow spraying the internal contacts. I urge caution if attempting to open this up as springs, and ball bearings may fly out never to be seen again!

If your bike has the older style glass tubed fuses, I suggest replacing them as vibration can cause internal failure. AGX is the type used, and most auto parts stores can get them for you.

Clean the fuse holder clips, looking for signs of overheating(discolored insulation, signs of melting).
I use metal polish on a cotton swab, followed by spraying another clean swab with the De-Oxit and then rubbing the inside of the fuse clip.

All battery cables must be clean and tight for maximum current transfer. Check the cables going from the Negative(-) battery terminal/post to the engine mounting bolt

Also the one going from the Positive(+) terminal to the starter solenoid and from there to the starter motor.

If any battery cable feels ”Crunchy” when flexed, replace it as possible corrosion is inside the insulation.

Each "Bullet Connector" will have to be sprayed to ensure good connectivity, especially the ones going to the energizing coil of the starter solenoid.

The alternator output “Bullet Connectors” are usually behind the engine sprocket cover and will need inspecting and cleaning too.

The turn signal light sockets will benefit from a spritz from the contact cleaner along with the tail light/brake light socket.

Some brake light switches can be sprayed on the actuating rod, with the spray running down inside to the electrical contacts, others may be sealed requiring replacement if the switch is intermittent in operation.

Some people put the Di-Electric Grease on cleaned terminations/connectors, I don’t, as I’ve read/heard it can cause problems when it gets hot, actually insulating the connections, so the choice is yours to use or not.

I think I've covered about all of the electrical systems on the bike.........


“I spent a weekend going through every electrical connection and switch on the bike with a little scotchbrite pad and DeOxit - what a difference! Everything was brighter, gauge backlights, indicator lights, turn signals, I was getting a nicer spark, it fired up quicker, etc. Well worth my time. WELL worth it! “
From a forum member at www.kzrider.com


Re: Cleaning the many and various Motorcycle electrics.
I used the De-oxit D-5 spray on all the electrical connections of my 78 Kz1000 that had sat for twenty years .

When I parked the bike in 92 I was starting to have troubles with some of the electrical system, but after pulling everything apart and giving it a spray , reconnecting the connectors and working them back and forth a few times, then gave them another shot of spray to wash them off before the final reconnection.

Everything still works perfectly and has for over 7000 miles this year.

I am extremely happy with the results , a lot of the connectors were green when I started and after the cleaning they looked new ( shiny gold )

I found the Deoxit D-series, D-5 spray in a 4 oz can at a big electronics store called Frys in Illinois, don't get the small cans at Radio Shack , they are different and meant for computer type stuff.

store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.188/.f

Trust MFolks , the guy's a true rocket scientist and really knows what he's talking about.
JD

Thanks for the info. I do need to go through the bike and perform this maintenance. Been looking for the Deoxit locally here in Washington State. I will just order it and then go through the whole bike. Appreciate the input. I'll keep at it! Take care....Keith

So, here is my latest results.
1/4 coil checks out with 11.7k on the secondary and 2.8 on primary
2/3 coil checks out with 11.6k on the secondary and 2.7 on the primary
Red power wire for 1/4 is 11.38 volts
Red power wire for 2/3 is 11.30 volts

Pickup coil for 2/3 is 449 Ohms
Pickup coil for 1/4 is 479 Ohms

Ignitor voltage
Black - .006 volts
Yellow - .000 volts
Red - .747 volts
Blue - .755 volts

On the surface it looks to me like I have a bad ignitor based on the manual.does this make sense in light of the engine running with a miss? What do you recommend next? Chasing this one! Thanks, Keith

I'm in the same boat with my 79 KZ650 - thinking I have a clogged jet on the #2 carb or compression on the cylinder is below spec. Waiting on a compression tester to do a basic evaluation and continue from there.

I started talking about gas mileage and this #2 issue low heat on the manifold just came to light yesterday - my words are posted here .

So, my biggest concern is not to go chasing a ghost that is not there. The numbers for the ignitor has me concerned and I have no choice but to continue the trouble shooting. Do those numbers indicate a failure of the ignitor and has anyone seen numbers like that before?

I copied this from an old "Loudhvx" posting:

Help With Igniter
I still have the rough HEI prototype in my bike. It's working fine after a few thousand miles. Actually it seems better than the stock ignitor. The HEI modules have a better input filter and better output characteristics. The stock ignitor sometimes gets false triggers that cause an occasional missfire at idle, nothing major, you'd probably never notice it until you directly compare it with one that doesn't misfire.

Your next step is to swap the pickup wires to determine if the loss is in the ignitor or the pickups. It's very important to swap the right wires here. Swap yellow with black. And swap red with blue. (Use jumpers so you don't lose the orientation of the connector. In other words don't actually take the wires out of the connectors.) See if this changes where the spark is. If the spark moves to the other coil, then it is the pickup (or it's wiring) that is bad. If the spark stays on the same coil, then it's the ignitor.

The black and blue pickup wires are for one pickup, and red and yellow are for another. Just ohm out the pairs. They should be around 450 ohms. Wiggle the wires and the pickups to see if you ever lose continuity on the pickups. (Obviously the pickup connector needs to be disconnected from the ignitor.)

In your case, it will be the red and yellow wire that are suspect (if it's not the ignitor). They control #2 and #3 cylinders. If you lose continuity determine if its a wire or the pickup itself. Check any point where the wiring is bent. Look for bumps in the insulation and wiggle them while the ohm meter is connected. If the ohm meter moves, pull on the wire to see if you can stretch the bump. This indicates the wire may be broken inside the insulation. When the wire breaks internally and the insulation is in tact, it creates a small bump in the wire. If the wires look fine, with no bumps, and no losses in continuity, it's most likely the pickup itself. To be sure you need to get two really small, sharp pins. Sewing needles are too think. The pins that come on new dress shirts work good. Insert them into the wire insulation right where the wires go into the pickups. One for red, and one for yellow. Then connect the ohm meter to the pins. If you have no continuity, the pickup is bad. Luckily pickups are cheap.

Markovich wrote: ...
Red power wire for 1/4 is 11.38 volts
Red power wire for 2/3 is 11.30 volts ....

Too low. And should match full battery voltage.

As for the igniter, would assure its black/yellow wire is providing a good ground, and that the connectors are providing good conduction from the pickup coils to the igniter and from the igniter to the ignition coils.

If not already done, may remove the spark plugs, leaving them otherwise connected and grounded against the engine head, and watching for quality of plug spark while spinning over the engine with the ignition switch turned ON.

Fat blue sparks are a good indication that the ignition system is strongly performing. Weak orange sparks indicate weak ignition performance for whatever reason (often insufficient voltage to the ignition coil).

Good Fortune!

Alright, I am continuing to research this problem. I have decided to replace the system with the Dyna S. I just figured that I would rather spend the money for piece of mind. I now realize that I will have to ensure the bikes wiring is adequate to support this anyway. Question, do you recommend bypassing wiring or use some of it or all of it? Before I got the bike PO jumped off one of the flashers. I didn't disconnect it as I wasn't sure what he did it for. Now I suspect it was due to a bad electrical source. More looking is in order even with the Dyna. Well, back to it. Thanks, Keith

Another question, when installing the Dyna s what is done with the wiring to the ignitor?