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ignition miss head scratcher 15 Jul 2014 14:27 #640154

  • 60ratrod
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so as my introductory thread stated, i'm having ignition issues with my 81 kz1000m1 csr. it all started after i got the carbs cleaned and the ignitor dieing on me. so i did the dyna ds1-1 kit and had it running good, aside from an off idle stumble between 2-3k rpms. then members over at kawasakimotorcycle.org suggested that i use the dyna mean green dc2-1 coils, so i ordered a set of those and while i was waiting on them to arrive i manufactured a set of coil brackets from 16ga sheet metal since one of the original brackets had the coil mounting ears rott off and the PO just rivet a replacement set of ears on the bracket, photos upon request for the brackets.

i get the new coils mounted and installed, with the dyna 7mm red wires and start the bike back up, and i can't get the bike to run off the choke. the closest i can get it to run off choke is just before the middle detent on the choke rod. and there was also a miss on cylinders 2 & 4. i found that i was dropping 3 volts between the battery and the coils. so i did the wiredgeorge relay mod and got the full juice to the coils. still had a miss on cylinders 2 & 4. so i went back to the coils that came on the bike since that was the last good known operational state, and i still can't get any further than just be for half choke, but the miss has gone from being on cylinders 2 & 4 to cylinders 2 & 3.

so i've stopped working on the bike for a bit since i can't figure out why there's a miss in the system and try and research what might be causing my problem. pretty much all of the wiring from the dyna and relay to the coils are 100% new to the bike, both on the pick-up side of the coil and the 12vdc switched side. and i will confirm my dyna mean green 3 ohm coils as either good or bad once my "new" ignitor for my 81 gs650g gets here. i redirected the coils to the gs because i don't have any spark on cylinders 1 or 4 and originally thought it to be the 1/4 coil. well after installing the coils and still getting no spark i find that it's a faulty ignitor.

so now i call on you guys for assistance as to why i would have a 2/4 miss with the mean greens and then develope a 2/3 with the factory coils when before i had nice even pulses before. and i know i had good pulses before because i confirmed the misses with my timing light, watching the light pulse as the wire fires the plug.

edit: i'm kinda starting to suspect my dyna s to be the root of all my evils right now, but i have the timing set correctly both staticly and engine running at idle, but not so much because of said stumble at 2k-3k rpms when it was running decently
Active Duty US Navy Aviation Ordnanceman Petty Officer First Class

81 kz1000m1 csr "Sarge"

81 Suzuki gs650g "Shelah"

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Last edit: by 60ratrod.

ignition miss head scratcher 15 Jul 2014 15:38 #640170

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60ratrod wrote: so as my introductory thread stated, i'm having ignition issues with my 81 kz1000m1 csr. it all started after i got the carbs cleaned and the ignitor dieing on me. so i did the dyna ds1-1 kit and had it running good, aside from an off idle stumble between 2-3k rpms. then members over at kawasakimotorcycle.org suggested that i use the dyna mean green dc2-1 coils, so i ordered a set of those and while i was waiting on them to arrive i manufactured a set of coil brackets from 16ga sheet metal since one of the original brackets had the coil mounting ears rott off and the PO just rivet a replacement set of ears on the bracket, photos upon request for the brackets.

the closest i can get it to run off choke is just before the middle detent on the choke rod. and there was also a miss on cylinders 2 & 4. i found that i was dropping 3 volts between the battery and the coils. so i did the wiredgeorge relay mod and got the full juice to the coils. still had a miss on cylinders 2 & 4. so i went back to the coils that came on the bike since that was the last good known operational state, and i still can't get any further than just be for half choke, but the miss has gone from being on cylinders 2 & 4 to cylinders 2 & 3. i get the new coils mounted and installed, with the dyna 7mm red wires and start the bike back up, and i can't get the bike to run off the choke.

so i've stopped working on the bike for a bit since i can't figure out why there's a miss in the system and try and research what might be causing my problem. pretty much all of the wiring from the dyna and relay to the coils are 100% new to the bike, both on the pick-up side of the coil and the 12vdc switched side. and i will confirm my dyna mean green 3 ohm coils as either good or bad once my "new" ignitor for my 81 gs650g gets here. i redirected the coils to the gs because i don't have any spark on cylinders 1 or 4 and originally thought it to be the 1/4 coil. well after installing the coils and still getting no spark i find that it's a faulty ignitor.

so now i call on you guys for assistance as to why i would have a 2/4 miss with the mean greens and then develope a 2/3 with the factory coils when before i had nice even pulses before. and i know i had good pulses before because i confirmed the misses with my timing light, watching the light pulse as the wire fires the plug.

edit: i'm kinda starting to suspect my dyna s to be the root of all my evils right now, but i have the timing set correctly both staticly and engine running at idle, but not so much because of said stumble at 2k-3k rpms when it was running decently

Multiple problems.

i get the new coils mounted and installed, with the dyna 7mm red wires and start the bike back up, and i can't get the bike to run off the choke.


That is a carburetion problem, vacuum leak, pod filters, lean jetting, etc.

there was also a miss on cylinders 2 & 4. i found that i was dropping 3 volts between the battery and the coils. so i did the wiredgeorge relay mod and got the full juice to the coils. still had a miss on cylinders 2 & 4.


Proof as to why I don't recommend the wired George mod: it doesn't fix the underlying problems, it isn't needed if the system is working correctly, and as you found out: leaves you still needing to fix the actual problem.

i did the dyna ds1-1 kit and had it running good, aside from an off idle stumble between 2-3k rpms. then members over at kawasakimotorcycle.org suggested that i use the dyna mean green dc2-1 coils, so i ordered a set

It sounds like you are saying it ran well with the Dyna.... so you changed to different coils and now it doesn't run right.

I suspect the coils and/or the coils may have damaged the ignition? Coil impedance has to be correct for the ignition.
1979 KZ-750 Twin

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ignition miss head scratcher 15 Jul 2014 15:54 #640174

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well as i stated, i switched back to the coils that were on the bike when i got it since those were the last known good running state with the dyna and the miss went from being on 2 & 4 to 2 & 3, which is what's making my head hurt with this

and for the filter side, it's a stock box with stock filter. it does have the 4-1 exhaust.

where would you suggest i start looking since it went from a 2 & 4 miss to a 2 & 3 miss? and i did the relay mod since i was loosing the 3vdc to the coils, even though i didn't suspect that to be my problem with the miss, but it was still a problem that needed solving in my eyes. i'd really like to get this on the road and have some seat time with it. but the running off choke issue does make sense that there might be a leak. i had to yank the 4-1 header to fix my leaky oil pan gasket, is it possible that my headers might be causing the off choke running issue?
Active Duty US Navy Aviation Ordnanceman Petty Officer First Class

81 kz1000m1 csr "Sarge"

81 Suzuki gs650g "Shelah"

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Last edit: by 60ratrod.

ignition miss head scratcher 15 Jul 2014 21:00 #640210

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60ratrod wrote: well as i stated, i switched back to the coils that were on the bike when i got it since those were the last known good running state with the dyna and the miss went from being on 2 & 4 to 2 & 3, which is what's making my head hurt with this

and for the filter side, it's a stock box with stock filter. it does have the 4-1 exhaust.

where would you suggest i start looking since it went from a 2 & 4 miss to a 2 & 3 miss? and i did the relay mod since i was loosing the 3vdc to the coils, even though i didn't suspect that to be my problem with the miss, but it was still a problem that needed solving in my eyes. i'd really like to get this on the road and have some seat time with it. but the running off choke issue does make sense that there might be a leak. i had to yank the 4-1 header to fix my leaky oil pan gasket, is it possible that my headers might be causing the off choke running issue?

where would you suggest i start looking since it went from a 2 & 4 miss to a 2 & 3 miss?

That beats me. I don't see how that can be the ignition since 1-4 and 2-3 use separate ignition sets.
1979 KZ-750 Twin

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ignition miss head scratcher 15 Jul 2014 22:18 #640217

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If you used the stock coils with the Dyna S, and the stock coils are the typical factory electronic-ignition coils, which are less than 3 ohms, Dyna says that will damage the Dyna S.

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ignition miss head scratcher 16 Jul 2014 00:03 #640223

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I had no idea dyna says the stock coils could fubar their dyna s system. I might need to get a second dyna s to see. And I agree bountyhunter, that's why I'm confused as to why it would have a miss on 2 & 4 with the 3 ohm coils and a miss on 2 & 3 with the factory style coils, even though before the swap it ran ok with the dyna ds1-1 and factory coils, which is why I'm kinda suspecting the dyna ds1-1 to be bad
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81 kz1000m1 csr "Sarge"

81 Suzuki gs650g "Shelah"

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ignition miss head scratcher 16 Jul 2014 13:01 #640278

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60ratrod wrote: which is why I'm kinda suspecting the dyna ds1-1 to be bad

based on the posts I have read, the Dynas are not very durable. Lots of posts about dead ones. The stock kawi electronic ignitions seem to be pretty robust, not many complaints about them dying.
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ignition miss head scratcher 16 Jul 2014 23:01 #640341

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That's what I've been told by a kawasakitmotorcycles.org member that's dealt with police kz's for 30+ years. I need to find a stock rotor, since miine went to that void where all missing things like to go hang out at. Where's a good place to get one? I still have the stock condenser plate and I'm gonna build a gm hei ignitor. I built one for my gs650g last night and that thing works like a charm, the replacement ignitor, not so much. And I think I still have the stock connectors and harness. I'll see here once I get the gs650g back together and start digging around for my kz's stuff
Active Duty US Navy Aviation Ordnanceman Petty Officer First Class

81 kz1000m1 csr "Sarge"

81 Suzuki gs650g "Shelah"

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ignition miss head scratcher 17 Jul 2014 08:22 #640372

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That part is part of the advancer, and as a last resort, Kawasaki still has them listed as "active" so you can theoretically get a new one with a new advancer and new springs.

I'm sure it will be very reasonably priced... if you get what I'm saying. :lol:


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ignition miss head scratcher 20 Jul 2014 21:27 #640765

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ok, since i'm waiting for a r/r for my 81 gs650, i decided to tinker with the kz. well with the gs, i had to do a DIY ignitor, and when i put it back together i forgot to ground the ignitor-r/r bracket which sits under the the plastic airbox. and with the build i couldn't put it back in the stock spot. so smoke checked the r/r because it wasn't grounded to the battery/frame. it rode me in instead of me riding it. it made it to work, but in the back of my truck. :pinch:

anyway, so i had a really bad exhaust leak or leaks, so since i got the factory headers from a police, i swapped the exhaust out for the factory exhaust. now i just have one leaking. i started her up to figure out why she's not running off choke and idling high and found vacuum leaks on the carb side of the intake boots. so, i'm going to buy some new ones since while they are still soft and pliable, they looks kinda suspicious. i also checked the valve clearances, and they all check out. so i should be closer to going down the road on this thing. i really can't wait
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81 Suzuki gs650g "Shelah"

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ignition miss head scratcher 11 Aug 2014 19:41 #643553

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so i will have to eat some crow seeing as how i was so sure that it was an electrical issue. it was the carbs all along. and i went and did a complete cleaning including dipping them in berryman's and my heated sonic cleaner. so she runs and rides, i just have to fix a vacuum leak on cylinders 2 & 3 since i have a popping at low engine speeds and a bit of a hanging idle/slow to return idle. the manifolds aren't the criminals here, since i just replaced them. i'm thinking it's the clamps i had to use since the originals had the tack welds break and let the small band let loose, so i gotta find those and see why i'm leaking gas. either i didn't set the floats right, or the new bowl gaskets are the problem.
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81 Suzuki gs650g "Shelah"

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ignition miss head scratcher 12 Aug 2014 14:51 #643685

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Thanks for the update. Good luck on the vac leaks and fuel leaks.

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