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OK to remove all suppression with Dyna S? 15 Apr 2014 08:11 #629099

  • chconger
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Hi Guys

On my 77 KZ 1000 I recently discovered I was running 5K ohm resistance in my plugs along with another 5K ohm resistance in my plug caps.

So I swapped out to non suppression plugs and realized a serious improvement in the bikes performance.

I would like to replace the caps to non-suppression as well, the only thing that is "electronic" and may get interference on the bike is the Dyna-S itself.

Will I get problems with the Dyna if I remove all suppression?

Thanks in Advance
Chris
1977 KZ 1000-A

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OK to remove all suppression with Dyna S? 15 Apr 2014 13:16 #629133

  • bountyhunter
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Personally, I would never risk it. The magnitude of the signals coming from the magnetic sensors into the control unit is miniscule so EMI could screw with them. You could call Dyna and ask, but I would use either the resistor plugs or caps or wires (pick one) to reduce EMI.
1979 KZ-750 Twin

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OK to remove all suppression with Dyna S? 15 Apr 2014 18:59 #629177

  • Patton
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Have run Dyna-S with Dyna green coils and Dyna solid core wires with integrated non-resistor caps, and NGKB8ES (non-R) spark plugs on both KZ900-B1 LTD and Z1, for many years over many miles, without any issues.

Ignition performance has been entirely satisfactory when running with zero resistance in the secondary circuits.

The only downside I'm aware of is significant audio interference that would otherwise be reduced by having one resistor component in the secondary circuit.

Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
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Last edit: by Patton.

OK to remove all suppression with Dyna S? 16 Apr 2014 09:21 #629218

  • chconger
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Thanks!

The bike is new for me & I took it to our local Kawi Dealer for its safety check and asked them to clean and sync the carbs. The bike had been sitting for some time.

They said the carbs were actually fine, and ignition was the issue; So I agreed and they installed & set up the dyna. But now I see they did not catch the doubled up suppression.

So replacing the plugs with B8ES was a major improvement, But I am still not perfectly happy with hard acceleration in the upper RPM's. Seems hesitant. But I am not sure as i did not really have a good run, if summer ever comes back, ill run some more to confirm.

So Ill remove the last of the suppression in the caps and see what it does. But I am also re-learning what I already knew years ago - Do this stuff your self. Especially in the internet age!

Don't be surprised to see me posting under carbs soon :-)

Cheers
Chris
1977 KZ 1000-A

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OK to remove all suppression with Dyna S? 16 Apr 2014 11:00 #629224

  • MFolks
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I'd try another brand of sparkplug, maybe a Denso W24-ESU gapped to 0.028", to see if the problems ignition, or carb related.
1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)

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OK to remove all suppression with Dyna S? 16 Apr 2014 14:40 #629245

  • Powerstroke_fan
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Yes its ok to run the dyna s with green dyna coils with solid core wires with no resistors. Ive ran mine that way for years. it use to say on the dyna website that you wasn't to run resistors. But last time I looked on there they changed the website and it wasn't there any longer. But as patton says it does cause radio interference. but its never affected anything on me.
1980 kz1000B4 LTD- 1327cc 9-1 comp
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OK to remove all suppression with Dyna S? 16 Apr 2014 17:28 #629314

  • chconger
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Awesome!

Those caps will be gone. But there may be no rush on this as it looks like it was the air filter.

I cleaned and oiled it last night. (Not sure I want to keep the K&N...seems to pass a specks of light through)

Just went for a quick ride; and it had the bit by the teeth, all the way up the band.

I cant complain about anything now.

Cheers & Thanks!
Chris
1977 KZ 1000-A

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OK to remove all suppression with Dyna S? 17 Apr 2014 16:51 #629443

  • bountyhunter
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chconger wrote: Thanks!

The bike is new for me & I took it to our local Kawi Dealer for its safety check and asked them to clean and sync the carbs. The bike had been sitting for some time.

They said the carbs were actually fine, and ignition was the issue; So I agreed and they installed & set up the dyna. But now I see they did not catch the doubled up suppression.

So replacing the plugs with B8ES was a major improvement, But I am still not perfectly happy with hard acceleration in the upper RPM's. Seems hesitant. But I am not sure as i did not really have a good run, if summer ever comes back, ill run some more to confirm.

This sounds odd to me. The "loss" due to the resistors is not much. If the ignition was working right, I would be very surprised to see a big difference. I have resistor caps on my 750 twin and have run resistor plugs and saw no difference.

The electronic ignitions put out more spark energy than stock so it surprises me that you are having this issue if the ignition is working properly.
1979 KZ-750 Twin

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Last edit: by bountyhunter.

OK to remove all suppression with Dyna S? 17 Apr 2014 17:41 #629446

  • chconger
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I think the coils, and voltage into them from the battery / charging system, are the principal determinant of the voltage delivered to the plug.

The ignition (electronic vs points) is really only the on/off switch to collapse the primary field to the coil. I know solid state ignition is better because nothing wears down and changes...I am not sure its any better because it makes the coil deliver more power. The only way the ignition can make the coil deliver more power is if you can snap down the field faster.

I don't think (but not sure) electronic does that better. Anyway...that is my speculation with no research / reference to back it up... so a decent chance I am out to lunch there and waiting to be schooled ;) .

I do know that removing the 5K ohm plugs and going with FSM recommended plugs was a serious improvement.

I still have the 5K caps and, after cleaning the air filter, I cant imagine how the bike will pull any better than it is now. One day ill remove them and find out.

Cheers
Chris
1977 KZ 1000-A

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OK to remove all suppression with Dyna S? 17 Apr 2014 19:46 #629455

  • ramtough_63
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The guy at dyna sent me non suppression wires we had the discussion and no worries no resistance will not interfere
with anything/anyone but the cages radio reception
1978 KZ1000 A2
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OK to remove all suppression with Dyna S? 17 Apr 2014 19:57 #629457

  • MFolks
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Kinda like what I've believed for a long time:

Ignition Coils And Sparkplug Wire Choices
What came with the bike, were ignition coils that even when new were marginal, add years of cooking under the tank in the stop and go traffic, and the ignition coils will probably fail when hot.

Replacement coils can be bought at www.z1enterprises.com
I believe “Emgo” is the brand. They also carry the popular Dyna 2.2 and 3 ohm coils, along with replacement sparkplug wires.

Now, you have a choice on sparkplug wires:

1. Copper plug wires with no surpression caps (the best choice, but will produce audio noise on Radio’s and TV’s). Not only do the copper core wires deliver better spark, they will also deliver a much longer lifespan - carbon core wires are prone to erratic spark delivery and early breakdown, & short lifespan.

2. Copper plug wires with surpression caps (a built in 5000 ohm resistor, that can sometimes fail, like what came with the bike). These should be checked with a multimeter now and then, as heat can cause them to become intermittent.

3. Copper plug wires with no surpression caps, but using resistor plugs(the “R” in the plug number).

4. Surpression plug wires with no surpression caps.

NEVER use resistor plugs combined with surpression caps along with surpression plug wires, as now there will be possibly three (3) sources of resistance in the secondary windings of the ignition coils, greatly reducing the spark energy.

Another choice is the Accel 3 ohm coils, with a similar, primary(small wire)electrical connection, using ring terminals as the Dyna ignition coils do. Whatever brand of coil you go with, make sure the primary wires will clear the mounting hardware, as the spacers come close, possibly blowing a fuse. Some riders have replaced the metal spacers with non conductive Nylon spacers, reducing the chance of an electrical problem.

7mm sparkplug wires will fit the stock ignition coils(if they have replaceable wires, indicated by screw off caps on the coils with ridges). The sparkplug wires fit into a port with a brass ”Stinger” that goes into the sparkplug wire or lead(the Brit’s. Canadians, and other countries call the sparkplug wires (“High Tension Leads”).
1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)

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OK to remove all suppression with Dyna S? 18 Apr 2014 18:09 #629546

  • bountyhunter
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chconger wrote: The ignition (electronic vs points) is really only the on/off switch to collapse the primary field to the coil. I know solid state ignition is better because nothing wears down and changes...I am not sure its any better because it makes the coil deliver more power. The only way the ignition can make the coil deliver more power is if you can snap down the field faster.

The CD ignitions do all of the above. There is a DC-DC converter built in to jack the battery voltage up to 400V which is used to charge up the storage cap. The di/dt rate on the coil primary is also faster than stock. Not sure about Dyna or kawi electronic because I never worked on those, but I believe they deliver more spark energy than coil/points systems.
1979 KZ-750 Twin

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