TOPIC:

Seems the primary windings are getting power and the signal wiring is performing okay.

In the morning when first trying to crank it up, try using only the kick starter, with choke lever full on (up), throttle left completely closed, petcock on or on prime a few moments before cranking to allow the float bowls to fill.

When running, would check charging system by measuring voltage across battery terminals -- should be about 12 volts at idle and increasing to 14-15 volts at say 3000-4000 rpm.

Thanks for the progress reports.

Good Luck!

I had started to suspect the charging system as well... Although I have put this battery through its paces over the last couple of days.

Tonight I am going to install a ground lift switch on the headlight for low battery start situations; there is already a hole where it appears that a headlight indicator lens was located.

I appreciate all of the help! I've learned more with my hands in this bike (and in this forum) over the last few days than any one text I have read about the subject.

I woke up this morning and tried to start it... No spark at all. I can't use the kickstarter because it seems that every time I pull in the clutch lever, the kickstart gear disengages...

*****No Spark*****

I am about to try a battery from my friend's bike to see if it works like that... If it doesn't I'll try one battery cranking the starter while the other powers the ignition !

Patton wrote:

Seems the primary windings are getting power and the signal wiring is performing okay.

In the morning when first trying to crank it up, try using only the kick starter, with choke lever full on (up), throttle left completely closed, petcock on or on prime a few moments before cranking to allow the float bowls to fill.

When running, would check charging system by measuring voltage across battery terminals -- should be about 12 volts at idle and increasing to 14-15 volts at say 3000-4000 rpm.

Thanks for the progress reports.

Good Luck!

BTW, the battery was on a trickle charge overnight.

The battery measures @12.6 volts unloaded and drops down to @10.3V loaded with the headlight and starter.

I managed to get the kickstart to engage for a few kicks and there is no sign of a spark there either...

And I only cranked the engine over with the starter a few revolutions - enough to see that there was no spark(as to not drain the battery.)

Is it safe to use a battery charger at low amperage to directly feed your ignition system for testing purposes? Does anyone know what the draw is for the coils?

BTW: 12.6v on the battery and only 10v to the coils? Bad switches?

I think the battery has about had it too.

Beatpoet wrote:

BTW, the battery was on a trickle charge overnight.

The battery measures @12.6 volts unloaded and drops down to @10.3V loaded with the headlight and starter.

If that is the batt voltage while the starter is cranking, your battery is in good shape. That's exactly how you test a battery, and anything above about 9V under starter and headlight load is OK.

Beatpoet wrote:

Is it safe to use a battery charger at low amperage to directly feed your ignition system for testing purposes? Does anyone know what the draw is for the coils?

I don't know why you would since your battery is testing good.

Beatpoet wrote:

BTW: 12.6v on the battery and only 10v to the coils? Bad switches?

I think the battery has about had it too.

Do you mean under starter crank or just key on?

The coil voltage should be within maybe 0.3V of the voltage you read at the battery terminals.

With just the Key on and using the engine block as a ground reference:

The battery reads @12v
From the condenser (points open) I read about 10v

I suppose I have to either find a bad connector or a short somewhere now huh...

Has anyone bypassed all of their handlebar switches (key, kill switches) and just put a discreet toggle switch somewhere under the seat?

I'm wondering if the switch capacitance would rob spark at higher RPMs?? ...Unless I used a plastic mount for the switch - that would keep the switch isolated from any ground. It would be a simple on/off switch directly from the battery positive to the ignition until I can trace down a short.

I'm going to clean and inspect the handlebar switches first - and test the resistance through each leg of the wire between the battery and the positive on the condenser (points open.)

bountyhunter wrote:

Beatpoet wrote:

BTW: 12.6v on the battery and only 10v to the coils? Bad switches?

I think the battery has about had it too.

Do you mean under starter crank or just key on?

The coil voltage should be within maybe 0.3V of the voltage you read at the battery terminals.

Beatpoet wrote:
can't use the kickstarter because it seems that every time I pull in the clutch lever, the kickstart gear disengages

Kickstarter function seems okay. The clutch is supposed to be fully engaged when using the kickstarter to turn over the engine. In other words, the handlebar clutch lever should be left alone (unsqueezed) while attempting to crank the engine by using the kickstarter. And the transmission should of course be in neutral. Disengaging the clutch (by squeezing the handlebar clutch lever) allows the kickstarter to simply push through without turning the engine.

Beatpoet wrote:
The secondary (between plug cap and ground) couldn't be read for some reason.

The coil secondary wiring is checked by measuring ohms between ends of the plug wires, which may be performed between the grip terminals inside the the plug caps. It is a measurement of resistance within the loop from end of one plugwire through the coil secondary winding to end of the other plug wire. No "ground" is involved in this ohm measurement which should be high in the range of 10.4K -16.4K ohms.
There should be zero continuity between either plugwire lead and coil core.
There should be zero continuity between the red/yellow wire and coil core.
Please let us know the ohm reading for the secondary coil windings.

b]Beatpoet wrote:[/b]
12.6v on the battery and only 10v to the coils?
The battery reads @12v. From the condenser (points open) I read about 10v.

For temporary testing, the battery positive and red/yellows into coils may be wired directly (using a separate additional length of wire) to avoid drop in voltage at coil. Don't leave the bike connected like this because it's the same as leaving the ignition switch turned ON which allows constant battery power to the coil.

Let's presume all is well with the coil, plug wires, caps, plugs and connections between the coil and plugs. As known, with full battery voltage to the coil (ignition ON) and points closed, there's a magnetic field in the primary winding created by battery voltage traveling into one primary terminal, through the primary windings, and out the other primary terminal to ground (via the closed points).

And as also known, when the points open, the primary winding loses its ground, so the magnetic field collapses, whereby the magic of magnetic flux and induced voltage in the secondary windings causes a high voltage loop from coil through plug wires and plugs and back to coil.

Here's a good plug spark testing method. With the plugs removed from the head and connected via caps and wires to coil, bind the plug bases firmly together (with a clamp, tape or rubber band) and place them so as not to be in contact with the head or any metal parts on the bike. May rest the plugs on a folded shop rag, towel or piece of foam situated between the plugs and head. With ignition switch turned ON, spin the starter motor (or use the kickstarter) and watch for sparks at the plug tips. No grounding of the plugs is necessary, because the high secondary voltage is circulating throughout the loop.

Won't hurt to double-check that the coil signaled by the black wire from the left-hand points is being used to fire the two outside sparkplugs #1 and #4, and that the coil signaled by the green wire from the right-hand points is being used to fire the two inside sparkplugs #2 and #3.

Now with all that said, the problem might be just a weak battery. Because, after all, the bike was actually performing okay before the new points and condensers were installed.

Good Luck!

And if not already done, would install 4 brand new NGKB8ES sparkplugs. Regardless of appearance of the existing plugs and regardless of whether the existing plugs seem to be firing okay outside the cylinder when not under compression. The existing plugs may look really good and clean, but never-the-less have become fuel-fouled beyond recovery.

I cleaned all of the connectors from battery to points one more time and scrubbed and heated each plug. I also re-connected the kill switch wires (the kill switch was bypassed!)

For good measure I put a cc or so of alcohol in each cylinder.

All systems go - almost. It ran rough.

I was missing a cylinder... The plugs were fouled. They were new last year (as was my battery) but I guess I must have done the plugs in while cranking cranking cranking cranking my machine over when the points' positive was wired to ground.

New B8 plugs (was running B9s) and she fired up healthily with a light touch to the starter button!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ten minutes with a borrowed timing light, and the engine was purring like a kitten.

Every scraped knuckle and hour spent in the garage has been worth the priceless knowledge I've gained from this experience... Not to mention the huge smile on my face from that extreme cold weather ride.

There are some tuning issues left - she hesitates a little bit too long when I crack the throttle open fast. I plan on doing a LOT more tuning. There were also a few pops on deceleration about 35 minutes into the ride.

Hey, thank you Patton for taking some time to help an up-and-comer while he's figuring out his bike.



Patton wrote:

And if not already done, would install 4 brand new NGKB8ES sparkplugs. Regardless of appearance of the existing plugs and regardless of whether the existing plugs seem to be firing okay outside the cylinder when not under compression. The existing plugs may look really good and clean, but never-the-less have become fuel-fouled beyond recovery.

Remember, you should be able to eliminate that 1 Volt drop between the battery and coil power input. It can make a big difference when starting and when running, IMHO.

To eliminate the symptom above, have you considered the WG Coil Re-powering Mod? I installed it and it was a day and night difference. Many of the switches inline with the coil power were suspect in my case.

Also, consider a Motorcycle Battery Tender for your battery (NOT a Motorcycle Battery Charger). It can make that battery last and last and last. It comes with the on-bike Tender plug (and fuse) kit so you can plug the Tender in every night.

Best of success.