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TOPIC: 79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!!

79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 3 years 7 months ago #445033

Ok guys, I need some serious help with this. I did a quick search and while this topic has been covered, I'm not seeing any point blank pictures that make me 100% sure of how to do this. I already managed to bend all four exhaust valves and two intake valves by doing this wrong (never would have thought you could do that by just turning the engine over by hand!!!). I have an old clymer's manual that is for 900s only (date on it is '76 or '77!). The thought was that the cam timing would be that they time the same, but maybe not and to me the instructions/pictures are vague at best (besides the obvious 28th pin mark on the intake cam). SO! I have pictures of what I THINK to be the correct timing marks, but I could really use some verification and if I am wrong, someone that has nice, clear pictures of all the correct timing marks, well that would be VERY much appreciated.

I believe this to be the correct Timing Mark for TDC 1&4 on the crank, YES?
IMG_0256.jpg


Once that timing mark is established, I believe this to be how to set the exhaust cam shaft as the next step (as viewed from the right hand side), lines visible parallel to the head mating surface, YES?
IMG_0257.jpg


This is the #1 lobe's position for the exhaust's camshaft when it is set to the above position. Makes sense, piston is on TDC fire, valve is closed, as the engine rotates forward that lobe will swing around and open the valve for the return to TDC on the exhaust stroke, YES?
IMG_0258.jpg


For the next step, this is what I believe to be the pin to count as #1 on your way back to 28 on the exhaust camshaft when using the horizontal lines as the timing marks, YES?
IMG_0260.jpg



And finally, this is the easiest of it (besides maybe the TDC mark on the crank), this should point to the 28th pin you count back from on the exhaust camshaft (this is the right hand side of the intake camshaft). YES?
IMG_0259.jpg


Verification of this being correct or wrong, followed with a good picture or two of the CORRECT way if wrong would be VERY much appreciated as would any tips on doing this little job. I have already read to make sure the bike is sitting straight up and not on it's kickstand while doing this and I know I need to make sure theres not slack/balled up section of the cam chain once I start to put it together. Thanks for any and all help guys!!

David
'79 1000LTD
1075 Kit
RS34s
Mild Port&Polish
Kerker Header
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 3 years 7 months ago #445036

  • peter1958
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Take the exhaust camshaft back out. Get glasses if your my age or a magnifihing glass and look very close for the mark on the exsaust cam It is not the lines. Everything else is fine.
74z1 75z1 76-900 78-1000 78ltd-1000 80 z1classic 81 kz1300 83 elr 84gpz1100 a bigger carburetor with a restrictor plate flows more than a carb the size of the restrictor plate
Last Edit: 3 years 7 months ago by peter1958. Reason: y
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 3 years 7 months ago #445041

  • Motor Head
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Have a look at this post by OMR, and look at the position of both camshafts "Lobes". You will find that when on TDC for 1/4 that the lobes are very level in the head, but pointing towards each other.
If it is not like this than possibly you're gears are not correct on the cams.
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/363495-valve-timing-issue#363498
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
Last Edit: 3 years 7 months ago by Motor Head.
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 3 years 7 months ago #445045

  • Patton
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camtimingfsmlg.jpg
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 3 years 7 months ago #445047

  • Patton
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camtimingfsmjumbo.jpg
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 3 years 7 months ago #445048

  • RonKZ650
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Yes those lines are not the marks to reference too. Look at Pattons picture and notice how the bolts are positioned relative the head surface. The mark you are looking for is on the cam right at one of the bolts, the lines you used are there for positioning the cams for valve clearance service. You are the first person in the world to use the wrong marks :( No I'm afraid I've done it and many, many times this has been done and bent valves happen every time.
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 3 years 7 months ago #445049

  • wireman
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look for a > mark on your sprocket line that up with surface of head,next pin directly above should be #1 pin to start counting B)
posting from deep under a non-descript barn in an undisclosed location southwest of Omaha.
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 3 years 7 months ago #445050

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ok,i guess pattons picture shows it also! :blink:
i dont have a manual handy so im working from memory,and it was never what it used to be! :sick: :woohoo:
posting from deep under a non-descript barn in an undisclosed location southwest of Omaha.
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 3 years 7 months ago #445054

Thanks for the help guys! I'll take a closer look at the exhaust camshaft tomorrow. Patton's picture shows pretty much what I think I needed to see. I let you know how it goes tomorrow!
'79 1000LTD
1075 Kit
RS34s
Mild Port&Polish
Kerker Header
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 3 years 7 months ago #445055

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Otto will be here shortly! :woohoo: :laugh:
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 3 years 7 months ago #445107

  • TomW
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RonKZ650 wrote:
:( No I'm afraid I've done it and many, many times this has been done and bent valves happen every time.

I did it too, and I didn't bend my valves. I used the wrong mark on the intake cam at the 28th pin. OOPS! Turn it over very gently after you check the timing marks to be sure you have it right. A leak down test confirmed my valves are still straight. Good luck.
'78 KZ1000B2 LTD stock + Vetter Fairing & luggage
'91 ZG1200B5 Voyager XII, stock
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 3 years 7 months ago #445236

Thanks for the help guys! She fired and ran good while I let her run. I've got 2 valves out of adjustment because I don't have the right shims, but I couldn't stand it and put the closest ones I had in so I could start her. She ran great (except for the popping, I'm sure due to the lean condition due to no restriction on the backsides of my RS 34 flatslides). Plan now is to get the right shims, fix the carbs and run it for 500 miles decently. Re shim, change the oil, check compression and hopefully all is good. Anyone have some small shims (2.25 or smaller) they want to sell? so I can get a good base point and do the math. Also.... need some parts for some flat slides (Mikuni RS34s) looking for a bowl and 4 new float needles and seats. Any help would be appreciated, but the help given was golden, thanks!!!!

David
'79 1000LTD
1075 Kit
RS34s
Mild Port&Polish
Kerker Header
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 3 years 7 months ago #445245

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six862m6 wrote:
...Anyone have some small shims (2.25 or smaller) they want to sell? so I can get a good base point and do the math. Also.... need some parts for some flat slides (Mikuni RS34s) looking for a bowl and 4 new float needles and seats....

If not already done, would check out KZr's Classifieds categories, and possibly post in Wanted. :)
Last Edit: 3 years 7 months ago by Patton.
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 2 years 5 months ago #528987

  • richrand
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Top. Holy sh*t. The big line across the exhaust cam is not the reference mark? my god. so the "mark" is the point of the isosceles triangle made by the bolt pattern? because there is no real discernible mark. hope i didn't bend all of my valves. :(
1977 KZ1000A1
1975 CB750F
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 2 years 5 months ago #528990

Sorry to hear that my friend.... it sounds like you made the very same mistake I did. There is actually a very small carrot on the exhaust cam that looks just like the mark(s) on the intake cam that you are supposed to use. Its definitely not the flat lines that go all the way across. I hope you didn't bend any valve man... I wasn't so lucky though; it caused me to bend almost every valve in my head (and I only hand cranked it). :(

David
'79 1000LTD
1075 Kit
RS34s
Mild Port&Polish
Kerker Header
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 2 years 5 months ago #529079

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Yup. Compression = 80 on nos 1-3 and zero on no. 4. I'll take a day off to clear my head.
1977 KZ1000A1
1975 CB750F
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 2 years 5 months ago #529125

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Whelp. Didn't take the day off. Pulled the head and i've got 6 of 8 valves bent. New valves are on the way.
1977 KZ1000A1
1975 CB750F
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 2 years 5 months ago #529218

  • Old Man Rock
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As others have provided... it's the > mark not the lines on the exhaust cam...

Maybe this help when ready to put back together after repair...

With 1/4 @ TDC "T Mark" as you have in the image, from the right side of the engine looking at Cams...

Both cam lobe tips should be facing in @ deck height....
Right side image is the correct alignments!

CamSprocketLobeOrientations.JPG
1976 KZ900-A4
MTC 1075cc.
Camshafts: Kawi GPZ-1100 .375 lift
Head: P&P via Larry Cavanaugh
ZX636 suspension
Keihin, 29mm CR specials
Kerker 4-1, 1.5" comp baffle.
Dyna-S E.I.
Earls 10 row Oil Cooler
Acewell 2802 Series Speedo/Tach
Innovate LC1 Wideband 02 AFR meter

Phoenix, Az
Last Edit: 2 years 5 months ago by Old Man Rock.
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 2 years 5 months ago #529375

  • richrand
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Thanks. That pic is super helpful.
1977 KZ1000A1
1975 CB750F
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79 KZ1000 Cam Timing HELP!!! 2 years 5 months ago #529386

  • Tomolu5
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I made the same mistake, got away without bending any valves though, suprisingly. I saw all the valves afterwards because I decided to have Larry cavanuagh do his magic on it. Happy, very happy. I'm planning to assemble it tommorow, and I'm also planning to go camera phone crazy during the assembly process. Then I will start a thread.
Mine:
04 Honda rebel 250(wifes)
04 GSXR 750(bolt on galore)
98 CBR 600F3(filter, pipe, adjustable cam sprokets, dyno tune)
76 KZ900A (LTD gauge pods, crash bars, LTD(style)pipes, dyna coils and ignition,headwork and mild port cleanup by cavanaugh racing, K&N filter pods, heck I dunno.
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