TOPIC:

I currently have the flag. Bull and I were not able to meet up before his trip and will be meeting the weekend after he gets back (September 30). I don't know if he was able to work out plans with Hypnohio yet for their exchange.

Rage, I'm glad to hear your going to be riding again.

Sept 30th????
DONT MAKE ME RIDE DOWN THERE TO GET THE BALL ROLLING AGAIN

Here's how it could play out currently with waiting on Bull if everything goes like clockwork:
Bull to Hypnohio 9-30
Hypnohio to me 10-6
me to asevans & koolaid kid 10-7 (I can do back to back days rides as long as the weather permits & it doesn't kill me )
les holt & koolaid kid to ramtough63 10-13 or 10-14
ramtough63 to KrazyChris 10-20 or 10-21
KrazyChris to boatdrinks 10-27 or 10-28
boatdrinks to BlackZ1R 11-3 or 11-4
BlackZ1R to Leg#3 11-10 or 11-11

If the flag was to move sooner, then it still has to get to PA yet so I'm guessing that only saves us 1-2 weeks. We are getting into the rainy season here in the mid-west so I don't expect this to go like clockwork. The temps in late October from TN south are around the 60's for daytime highs. There appears to be an issue with the hand-off to Leg#3 anyway as the Texas relayers haven't responded to BlackZ1R yet for coordination of the hand-off.

I'm not suggesting you change any routes, but I wanted to let you know that the flag has been to PA in case that becomes a problem. I took it to Littlestown, PA when I had it. Ed

Thanks Ed for that info, I did not see that in Leg#1 I guess.

OK then, the need for PA to be crossed is satisfied but we are still left with the issue of including everyone that wants to be part of the relay and if so, what is a reasonable amount of time to allow for that to happen as brought up by some of the other relayers.

In many prior cases the relayer simply went MIA or bowed out just before it got to them which made the dropping of that relayer easy but this time it's different as Bull still wants to be part of this relay but with a 24 day delay as of today. In his absence now, I'm left with no way of knowing his thoughts on this now, only just by what he said in his last post to be included in the relay.

As Leg#2 coordinator, as more and more relayers joined Leg#2 over time, I've been torn between wanting to include everyone as much as possible and moving it along as quickly as possible. I don't have a clear cut answer as to what to do now based on how the relay has been conducted thus far, there were no guidelines for how something like this should be handled that I can recall. If someone knows that there was something agreed upon earlier in the relay that would apply here to clear up how to proceed then please post a link. I'm not the originator of this relay and I'm not throwing this on Ed either specifically but if there is to be decision as to how something like this is to be handled then IMHO it would have to be made by either the majority of the all of the relayers or by Ed as the originator of the idea of this relay.

I have no more say in the relay rules than anyone else, and I am happy that is true, but here’s my take on the issue. We know folks want to be included, and the relay should include as many as is practical. However, if the relay is put on hold for 3+ weeks some participants who are currently ready to ride may not be able to do so at that later date due to cold weather or outside commitments. As a result, some riders may be shut out to accommodate others. How do the other participants feel about the delay? If the delay is found to be too much of a problem, is the flag ready to be passed on and are there currently riders available to move the flag through the necessary states so it can make its way south? Ed

I don't remember where I saw it and I'm not going to wade through all the posts find it , but some where someone said "and I agree" that you should be able to get the flag on one weekend and pass it on the next.
basically " shit or get off the pot "

I know things come up and bikes break down or we just don't have the people to move it, but I don't think this is the case here.

Also October is going to get real iffy around here in the Midwest, November , maybe the flag should run through the Southwest and head up the West coast.
Just a thought

Not to offend anyone but i say keep it moving. If i was the one holding it up and someone was available and able to take the flag then i would want it to keep moving. Just my thoughts.

I just erased 2 paragraphs, it is what it is.

Les

asevans wrote: Not to offend anyone but i say keep it moving. If i was the one holding it up and someone was available and able to take the flag then i would want it to keep moving. Just my thoughts.

I agree . Best to try and keep it moving when ever possible. .02

Having been a member was involved in a delay in Florida. At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, I vote for keeping the flag moving. Bull made plenty of posts concerning his schedule. I guess nobody wanted to be the spoiler by suggesting its too much of a delay. Which I can understand. If you remember, in my case, I got the bulk of the heat for the month delay in Florida. I share in the blame but equally so. But in reality, I had planned on bowing out all along if my bike wasn't ready. But the way things turned out there wasn't anybody else to replace me until Kawickrice stepped up to the plate to take the hand off. And he only knew last minute if he could participate, a day before the hand off actually happened (he had bad rectifier on order which he luckily received the day before the hand off). My point is, if could have bowed out, I would have. We didn't have any options in Florida. Its sounds to me like there is options in Ohio. My priority at the time was always to keep the flag moving above whether I participated or not. I think that is the frame of mind everyone needs to have when their turn comes up.

I am in Cleveland Ohio...Is there anyway I can help?

If it turns out that we do a plan B, what would a potential Ohio exchange look like? Any ideas?

Heck Joe I wouldn't have been ready to run when you did,
I was afraid that you were pushing to ride a untested bike.
That was very early in the season and like you said , no one else was in position to take it.

JD

KZ_Rage wrote: Here's how it could play out currently with waiting on Bull if everything goes like clockwork:
Bull to Hypnohio 9-30
Hypnohio to me 10-6
me to asevans & koolaid kid 10-7 (I can do back to back days rides as long as the weather permits & it doesn't kill me )
les holt & koolaid kid to ramtough63 10-13 or 10-14
ramtough63 to KrazyChris 10-20 or 10-21
KrazyChris to boatdrinks 10-27 or 10-28
boatdrinks to BlackZ1R 11-3 or 11-4
BlackZ1R to Leg#3 11-10 or 11-11

If the flag was to move sooner, then it still has to get to PA yet so I'm guessing that only saves us 1-2 weeks. We are getting into the rainy season here in the mid-west so I don't expect this to go like clockwork. The temps in late October from TN south are around the 60's for daytime highs. There appears to be an issue with the hand-off to Leg#3 anyway as the Texas relayers haven't responded to BlackZ1R yet for coordination of the hand-off.

I say keep this thing going since we have plenty options in Ohio. That way we may be able to get it through the Midwest states before it gets rough out there.
If it comes down to having problems going into the Midwest states this late in the year, re-route it to the West coast if it works out better that way for all the relay riders.

As far as my hand off to leg #3 goes, I just got off the phone with WABBMW in Houston for the first contact with any leg #3 relay riders. He has agreed to meet me in Alexandria, La. for a hand off.
From there he's thinking taking it home and hand off to another Houston KZ rider to go to Dallas to meet OKKent from OK City.

That puts me meeting with boatdrinks in Columbus, Ms. for his hand off, then going back home to Florence. Then going from Florence to Alexandria to hand off to WABBMW. 700 miles minimum. Just wish we had a few more riders in this part of the relay, as the relayers will be riding long miles from here on out.

My recruiting has brought no one into the relay so far. I posted in the ZRXOA road trip forums with all the details for the relay, the first response was positive and willing to ride, but he was in Huntsville, Al., same as boatdrinks

I say keep it moving as well. As for the schedule, depending on where the hand off to KrazyChris takes place and BlackZ1R and Chris are game, the flag could move from Chris to BlackZ1R in the same weekend as Chris is only about 30 miles from me.

burp...scratch scratch.....burp

ok where is it and who wants it
hot potato

KZ_Rage, sounds like you've got a consensus on keeping it moving.

It won't help you in this particular case but one strategy for keeping it moving while including as many riders as practical is group rides. Two or three riders can converge on a site for hand off then ride together to the next hand off. That's how we did it through VA and it worked well.

Also, there's a lot of back and forth in this thread basically asking the question "How do we make decisions?" and "Who has the authority to decide?".

I like the consensus approach that you've taken here. It's what I tried to do on the first leg as well. Ultimately though someone has to decide when consensus has been reached or make a decision and move on if it can't be reached.

I propose we empower the leg coordinators to do that. They're putting in a lot of work and I think they deserve a little bit of decision making ability.

I don't want anyone just going off and deciding stuff willy nilly, but when there's doubt, put the question to the group, get some input and make a decision. I think that's part of the role of leg coordinators.

Just my two cents worth: a 3-4 week delay on one rider is completely unacceptable. Figure something else out, please.

Topper wrote: KZ_Rage, sounds like you've got a consensus on keeping it moving.

It won't help you in this particular case but one strategy for keeping it moving while including as many riders as practical is group rides. Two or three riders can converge on a site for hand off then ride together to the next hand off. That's how we did it through VA and it worked well.

Also, there's a lot of back and forth in this thread basically asking the question "How do we make decisions?" and "Who has the authority to decide?".

I like the consensus approach that you've taken here. It's what I tried to do on the first leg as well. Ultimately though someone has to decide when consensus has been reached or make a decision and move on if it can't be reached.

I propose we empower the leg coordinators to do that. They're putting in a lot of work and I think they deserve a little bit of decision making ability.

I don't want anyone just going off and deciding stuff willy nilly, but when there's doubt, put the question to the group, get some input and make a decision. I think that's part of the role of leg coordinators.

+1